192: Women, You’re Not Too Emotional (You Might Not Be Emotional Enough) | with Becky Brown

Women in small churches often feel like we have to hold it all in or keep it together for everyone else. But shutting down emotions doesn’t make us stronger — it cuts us off from one of the main ways God shapes us.

In this episode, Becky Brown and I bust the myth that emotions are a weakness and show why they might be your greatest strength.

What you’ll hear in this episode:

• Why “managing” your emotions can backfire — and what to do instead
• The surprising connection between emotional growth and spiritual maturity
• How women in small churches often feel pressure to “hold it together” — and why it’s healthy to fall apart sometimes
• The truth about emotions as signals, not distractions or obstacles
• Why your “too much” might actually be exactly what your church needs

Connect with Becky Brown:
When You Feel Like You’re Too Much: Why Your Emotions Might Be a Gift, Not a Problem
www.soveryblessed.com

Get on the waitlist for the Lead Well for Women in Small Churches Conference: www.smallchurchsummits.com

Join our free Facebook Community: www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministry

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Transcript

Laurie Graham: 0:01

Hey, welcome to the small church ministry podcast, where we help volunteers and ministry leaders experience less stress, more joy and greater impact as we share strategies that actually do work in smaller churches. I'm your host. Laurie Graham, let's dive in. You. You. Hey, hey, welcome back to the small church ministry podcast. We are so glad you're here this September. We're doing something special on the podcast. All month long. I'm going to be interviewing for specific speakers from our lead well conference that's coming up. And if you haven't heard yet, lead well for women in small churches is happening on September 27 2025 it is free, it is online, and it's designed for women who power their small churches, whether you're a volunteer, a pastor's wife, a leader, a pastor, or an everyday woman who just shows up with no title, early, staying late, or caring more than most people ever realize. So if that is you, or if you know some woman like that, this conference is for her. So free tickets are available@smallchurchsumits.com in a couple days, and if the free tickets aren't up yet, you can get on the wait list at the same link. We will make sure to drop it below in the show notes also. And if you're listening right now, let's say you're a guy, because we have guys who listen to this podcast too. Okay, that conference might not be for you, but please keep the women in your life in mind and share even this episode. One of the big themes we're talking about today, as well as at that conference, is just myths around what we believe about women in small churches. Today's myth might sound a little familiar. You are too emotional, or that's too much. Many of us have heard this outright. Maybe we have also just felt it, or maybe there's been a sideways comment, or kind of the pressure to keep it together, the idea that emotions are weaknesses in women or that we need to manage or tone down. This is the myth we're busting out today. And here's the truth, emotions are not a liability. They're actually one of the ways that God shapes us, guides us and grows us, and that's why I'm super excited for today's conversation with my dear friend Becky Brown. Becky writes at so very blessed.com where one of her most read posts is actually called when you feel like you're too much, why your emotions might be a gift and not a problem. In this blog post article, which we will also drop into the show notes, she really unpacks what many women have felt. Many of us have felt that we're too sensitive or too needy or too much, and this article flips the script to remind us that feelings might actually be one of the ways that God gets our attention and even draws us deeper. Now if you've ever heard me talk about my friend Becky Brown, my friend Becky, my friend Becky, who I walk with every day. This is her Okay. Becky and I connected first at a small church where I was serving as a pastor's wife for quite a long time, and I immediately just appreciated her honesty, her initiative and her depth. She is someone who wrestles with big emotions, big faith and leadership in a really different way than I do. She comes in with a gentler, more grace filled way of living. I get to hear Becky's voice almost every single day, whether it is over the phone in our ear buds or on Marco. And finally, you all get to hear her voice too. Becky, finally, right.

Becky Brown: 3:40

Finally, we talk about you guys, our audience all the time, but you don't get to hear me. You

Laurie Graham: 3:46

just get through her. It's so true. So before we jump into today's myth and talking about emotions, Becky, what do you want whoever's listening right now to know about you?

Becky Brown: 3:57

Yeah, so I mean, you gave me a great intro there, and really kind nice that you describe me as gentler than you too. So funny. I am a wife and a mom of two little boys, and I live in a small Texan town. Sometimes I say I'm living in my Hallmark movie here with my cabinet maker husband, and we're super plugged into our local church, and it's an amazing place where I've grown into leadership there as well. And I think the most important thing for you to know about me on today's podcast is that I'm a really big feeler who has spent a whole lot of my life trying to make my feelings smaller and more acceptable and easy for the people around me. So that's important for you to know.

Laurie Graham: 4:39

I think that's so interesting that you just said easy for the people around you. I had one time, and I'll never forget this. And I honestly just remember this one moment when an older gentleman that I was really good friends with, I was at his house and we were with our families and all kinds of stuff, and he said he actually told me to calm down. And I. I was so taken back and because I was excited and I was happy and and it really just hit me, but I love that you started with this for a couple reasons. Becky. One is that I think so many women listening right now are going to relate to you. You're not just showing up today as a writer or a speaker, but as a mom, a wife and a woman who feels things deeply in everyday life, and that's exactly why I wanted to have this conversation with you. So here's the truth and Becky, and I will stand by this, and I may get some emails on this because I'm about to say it, but I really believe this. There is no real spiritual growth without emotional growth. And to say it again, there's no real spiritual growth without emotional growth. And if we ignore our feelings, we cut ourselves off from the main way, one of the main ways, God formed us to be and exist like it's just it's not healthy, and this is the myth that we are busting out today. Okay, so let's start right where so many of our listeners live. Women in churches often hear, don't be led by your feelings. You need to manage your emotions. Becky. I'm going to let you run with this one. How did those messages shape your own journey, and why do you think they can actually be unhealthy for women who serve in any capacity in church? Title or no? Title?

Becky Brown: 6:32

Yeah, I think the short answer is so you know, in my own journey, I have to go back to my childhood, because I was born a big feeler. My mom describes me as big and sparkly and bubbly, but also like I would feel anger, big. I would feel happy, big. I felt all the things big. And she described me like that as I mean, from her earliest memories of me. And so I would say that this started at birth, and has been many, many years of me learning to quiet myself down, shove my feelings aside, so that I could power through and do whatever people ask me to do, so that I could fit the environment better. And like we talked about, make it easier on people around us, and yeah, that whole manage yourself, like Make Yourself Smaller, make yourself fit here. And how, yeah, make yourself fit. And we just, it's like we're told to cut off our arm, like this huge thing that is the most important thing going on for us in that moment there, like we're told, just shove that aside, put that aside, and focus on what I want you to do for me, what you are here, how you're here to serve me, kind of thing, and I feel like in the world of Christianity, the message I received, both directly and indirectly, was your emotions can't be trusted. Your heart is deceitful. They will lead you to sin. So stop it, stop feeling, stop it. And make them smaller, make them fit. And those messages basically taught me to distrust the way God made me instead of seeing my emotions as part of his design. You asked me a second part of that question. What was the second part of your question to me, what's unhealthy?

Laurie Graham: 8:14

Yeah, what could actually be unhealthy for women who are serving and I think you've touched on it,

Becky Brown: 8:19

yeah. So I just more and more, even just recently, you and I have been having these conversations as I've been diving into this topic of wholehearted faith. And what does that look like to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength? Well, our heart, in the Bible, it was never meant to just be our feelings. Our heart is connected to our minds. It's connected to our souls, the Holy Spirit. It's connected. We are. We were made to be whole and in Christ, and when we are shutting down this very important, huge piece of ourselves, we're just cutting off such an important part of our experience of God, and we can't disciple women well if we only allow half of their humanity into the room. And you know, so

Laurie Graham: 9:07

good, like, we have so many questions, we're so not going to get through all our questions. Becky, because, like, even now, I want before we go too much farther, I want to go back to something you said when you were talking about how your mom described you, because she described you as sparkly and big feelings and bubbly and excited and knowing you now for probably over a decade, almost, yeah, I was gonna say almost two, probably for quite a long time. You describe yourself as an introvert, and I want to talk about that here, because for people who are listening, most people have seen me, I can be really like, wow, you know, like, I am a functional extrovert. I do need downtime, but I don't want women to think this is really just for people who have, you know, unending energy extroverted, because you do describe your as yourself as an introvert. So Can an introvert have big feelings and be sparkly and blah, blah?

Becky Brown: 10:00

See, oh my gosh. It's almost like, it's so interesting, because as you were talking, I was like, well, it makes sense where you're going here, but I didn't expect you to go there. Because as an introvert, I feel like, I yeah, maybe I don't show it out loud in social settings as much, but my feelings are so big and so deep and like when I picture myself as an introvert. I am with Jesus outside with my journal, and this in with when the sun rising every morning during my quiet time, right? And that is where my feelings show up the biggest, because I'm not distracted by my boys and parenting and work and like that's I'm my feelings are up my my height when I'm in my most introverted self, wow.

Laurie Graham: 10:38

Okay, I just think that was really important to touch on, because, you know, and I think, I think science is basically saying most of us aren't either or we're mostly ambiverts. Isn't that what they're saying now anyway, so yeah, introvert and extrovert, ambivert. Just wanted to let you all know who are listening like. We're very, very different people. And no matter where you're at on an extrovert, introvert, or even the thinking feeling scales right, like when we think of of the boxes we put ourselves in with ENTJs, that's me, you know, or whatever, like you know, we're we're all over the board, but all of us have emotions, and most of us have been taught not to trust them and to squish them down and to keep them quiet, to take captive our thoughts, right? Like if we think of the overarching biblical things that many of us have heard, that the heart is deceitful, right? Like we hear these things, many of them taking crazy out of out of context, yes, but so let's talk about in churches. Okay? In churches, especially Becky women often feel like they have to hold it together. Okay? And this is even on a whole different scale, like we have to hold it together for our families, for the people we serve, for our congregation, for for our kids, if we have them, for our friends, even even sometimes for leaders, like we need to be supporting that leadership. So we need to hold it together. Where do you think that pressure comes from, and what's the cost of carrying it?

Becky Brown: 12:06

Oh, it's such a good question. So I mean, I really think that the pressure comes from a mix of cultural expectations and church culture. It feels holy to hold it all together. It feels like the good Christian thing, to show up with a smile on your face and serving all the people and not not showing the cost of showing up and sacrificing and serving, but the cost is huge, loneliness, exhaustion, this unspoken message that Jesus accepts us More when we are most polished, which is so, oh, that's good gospel, right? The opposite of the gospel, yeah? Like, we were made. We were made to to need Jesus to be whole. We were, yeah, we were made for that. And so, yeah,

Laurie Graham: 12:57

yeah. And as we're talking about, like, stuffing emotions or pushing through, or, you know, being contained, or, you know, managing our emotions. Becky and I aren't talking about like, if you feel angry, you should scream at someone. Like we're not saying that. We're not saying we should be bleeding all over the place and and dragging, you know, like our trauma with us and spilling everywhere. That's not what we're talking about. What are we talking about? Becky, like when we're talking about being honest with our emotions, you know, not stuffing them down that that word manage

Becky Brown: 13:29

it? Well, I would say you and I have talked about what, what word fits that better. It's, is it? I've been using the word navigate our emotions instead of manage our emotions because it manage sounds. It's in sign language. I used to be an ASL interpreter. The sign for manage is the same sign as control. It feels, yeah, I know it feels like you're controlling your emotions, and that's not really the goal here. When Laurie and I are talking about managing or navigating our emotions, we're talking about recognizing acknowledging them, naming them, and then asking, Jesus, what is this here for? What should I be paying attention to here? What does this connect to? Is this helpful? Is this harmful? It's the start of a conversation. It's not like so good, yeah, it's Yeah, yeah. It's the start of a conversation.

Laurie Graham: 14:19

That's so good. That's so good.

Becky Brown: 14:22

And I want to say, you know, super practically in churches, one of the things that really threw me for many years was how people talked about women's ministry. And so women's ministry has kind of gotten a bad rap over the years. And some of it is true and some of it is just not. Some of it has been an exaggeration of, well, oh, they just made ministry, women's ministry, just super fluffy, and that's all it is now, is women's ministry events. I don't even go to those because they're just fluff. They just talk about feelings. There's no meat there. And that really scared me away from emotions for a long time, because they basically, they weren't directly. Saying your emotions are are meaningless. They don't. What are you doing there with emotions that that's not gospel, that's not Jesus, that's not Bible. And I just think that there is a really beautiful way to pair both emotions with the meat of Jesus, gospel, scripture, and it's really a disservice when we just write something off because there are emotions involved, or because there are no more emotions involved, it's just, it's just such a disservice to to have such an extreme view of that.

Laurie Graham: 15:30

Yeah, you know, when I think about the pressure of caring emotions, like stuffing them down, or whatever I think about, sometimes that pressure comes from the emotions that we feel like maybe we're not supposed to have, right? Like I'm angry. Oh, wait, I'm not supposed to be angry, so I'm not going to admit I'm angry. I'm actually going to shove that way, way down and not even say I'm angry, that I love that person, that I am speaking the truth in love, that I'm going to overlook, that I'm going to, you know, because I'm angry. But the cost of shoving that anger down and not actually admitting that we have anger is missing out on the fullness that God has for us. Like, I don't even think it's a processing anger to make it go away. I think it's a God like, it's invitation from God saying, hey, come talk to me about that. That's a feeling I gave you. That feeling. Let's talk about why. Let's talk about where that came from. Let's talk about why that that's normal, why it would be normal that you would feel like that and and what's coming up in you, and what is it about that person? And, you know, what is it about that relationship, you know, like, what is it that's bubbling up? And let's talk about it together. Let me reach into that. But when we shove it down, pretend we're not. I'm trying to think of other emotions that some people would call negative. Can you think of any, like anger, rage, hostility, sometimes sadness. We think we're not supposed to be sad or grieving because we're supposed to be suffer well in the church, because we don't talk about suffering Well, yeah, suffering, angst, confusion, like there's so many emotions that we would label as negative, because I think most of us are fine showing up happy. We're happy to show up calm, to be carrying peace, like to be peaceful, to be I'm trying to think of other positive emotions, but it's those negative ones that we've dubbed negative, right? Yep, but just like Easter and Good Friday, like, if we think about like, how it contrasts, like our joy would not be what it is if we didn't experience pain,

Becky Brown: 17:30

yeah? Oh, I know. I do remember a few months ago, my husband brought up the concept of lamenting being a spiritual discipline. And I know, and it just that was a game changing flip that he switched in my mind, like, oh, I can, oh, that's even more powerful. I can use this to Draw me nearer to him.

Laurie Graham: 17:49

Yeah, it's so good. You know, wherever you're listening from right now, we are starting a conversation. There is no way. Becky and I could talk about this literally for hours, because we have, we do? We can only, like, start touching on a few of the things that we believe, that we've grown in, that we've experienced. We obviously can't even share what you've experienced in this space, because you can't speak back to us, but you can leave us notes and messages and come to the conference on September 27 but what I want to make sure we get across is that emotions are invitations, and that I don't think we should dub

Becky Brown: 18:28

any as bad. Yeah, I completely agree. And Becky you've

Laurie Graham: 18:32

written about emotions being like holy, nudges, invitations, not inconveniences or not like obstacles. Can you share a moment or two when, like paying attention to your emotions, especially ones that maybe in the past you would have shoved away or not considered? Can you share about a time when you were paying attention to your emotions and it actually helped you connect with God or even lead or serve more effectively?

Becky Brown: 19:28

Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest example is recently I I've been preparing I'm going to be teaching in our women's Bible study in a few weeks, and I've been preparing that that teaching. And I think the biggest thing recently is recognizing all the work I've done to get to this point, because I would not have a teaching without my emotions. My emotions led me to choose this particular chapter. My emotions led me to step up and reach out to the woman who facilitates Bible study and the woman who like who brought me onto the teaching team. My emotions are what are bringing to light all these personal examples that I'm going to bring in into this teaching. I mean, the teaching wouldn't exist without my emotions. And I can't even count to you all of the holy nudges that have come up along the way. And it's not like, when I say Holy nudge, I don't always mean like, oh, this just feels so good. God wants me to go here. There are those holy nudges. But there's also like, ooh, when I'm reading that, that feels so uncomfortable. And then I ask the follow up question, why? Why does this make me uncomfortable? What am I. Dismantling a belief, am I what? What is this challenge in me? And it draws me deeper and closer and even in the discomfort? And so I, yeah, I would say that acknowledging my emotions has reconnected me, or connected me, possibly for the first time, to to those Holy Spirit nudges that is such a huge part of faith. I think that I've gotten really comfortable with Jesus and God and Scripture over the years, but the Holy Spirit is huge, and that's that's so tied to our emotions too.

Laurie Graham: 21:04

Oh, that's so interesting. You know, when you were talking about everything you're saying right now, I just went in a different direction in my brain, which we know is normal, but like we were talking about the pressure or the the society thing of You're too much. Those emotions don't belong here. But I just started thinking about how often in my past, especially, you know, in my history, not in my probably in my last 10 years, I've been getting so much better at this, but my emotions were too much for me, like I didn't want to feel my emotions. It wasn't like I was holding them down because of that person, or at least not knowingly, because of a pressure or a norm. I didn't want to accept my sadness or my anger or my disappointment, like disappointment or, you know, for me, feeling misunderstood is, is an emotion that hits me deeply, right, like when people don't know me or or, yeah, misunderstood is a big emotion for me, but I think some of my growth has hasn't been even about other people. It's been about like, it's, it's too much for me to handle, and I think getting comfortable with all emotions, and I'm not sure, can we say this is true or not true? But like, if you don't ever feel anger, I would say that's not true. I would say you're not aware of your anger. If you don't ever experience sorrow or sadness, I would say, yeah, that's not true. If you don't think you experience these emotions, you're human, so you've got them all. Like, if you can't identify the UX, most likely, most likely, you're not recognizing your own emotions. And I want to be really careful with that, because I don't want to blame people and say, You, you, you. But I'm still in this. I think I'm still uncovering emotions. Like, can you talk about that a little bit? Did I just judge everyone listening?

Becky Brown: 22:52

No. Well, what I want to say is, let's go back to the beginning, where we talked about this cultural pressure to just change the way we feel. This begins in childhood. Most of us, if we aren't feeling these things, we aren't aware of why. So I have 100 pound weight loss journey. In my experience, I went to food to not feel my emotions for years, and I never would have told you when I was in it. I never would have said I'm using food to not feel my emotions. It's in right that I'm learning these things about myself. And so it's this, it's this, I'm upping my sensitivity of recognizing, like, Oh, I did feel that. There you went. In our conversations, in the morning, you'll say, Wow, I can tell. Like, how does it how do your shoulders feel right now? It sounds like your voice is getting a little tense, and I won't even recognize it until you bounce that back to me. So yeah, it's yeah, it's so important. It's all about fine tuning to get to that point too.

Laurie Graham: 23:44

Yeah. And oftentimes our go to behaviors that that bring us comfort are often masking emotions, like, like a lot of women in small churches, we talk about it all the time, like we want to be in control. We want to we don't want to let that go. Like, like controlling things around us is, is one of those things that often is masking that emotion of feeling out of control, or feeling fear, like we have a lot of stuff like that. Oh,

Becky Brown: 24:10

hyper productivity. I mean saying yes to all the things, having no boundaries, such a sign of, like, okay, there's stuff going on there that is trying to get your attention.

Laurie Graham: 24:20

Yeah. I love what you said earlier, too. You talked about naming it. I think you had a little three step or five step thing there. Do you want to do that again?

Becky Brown: 24:29

Remember what I said? But yeah, yeah.

Laurie Graham: 24:32

Like we talked about, like, how do we get, how do we take this invitation, you know, like, how, where does it start? And you mentioned, maybe it wasn't a three step, five step, maybe it was just in our conversation. But you, you talked about, like, having to recognize, or name it

Becky Brown: 24:45

first, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, that tuned in sensitivity. It you have to see what's going on if you, if you don't recognize a problem, you can't fix it, so just recognizing your emotions. Okay, I'm feeling this right now. Then it's like, okay, sadness is what we're dealing with right now. Let's let's deal and you might have other words as you get deeper into it. Okay, it's not just sadness, it's grief, it's depression, yeah, whatever words are added to it, but recognizing it. And then I think I said inviting Jesus into it, and just like short prayers of Lord, can you help me figure out what this means? What is the signaling? What, what? What's like. How can I use this to drive me to helpful choices? How have I used this to drive me to harmful choices? Just questions of what? What does this mean? Yeah, yeah.

Laurie Graham: 25:31

I think getting in touch with our emotions, understanding how God uses them, recognizing them, admitting them, embracing them, journaling them, having discussions like this, I really think it makes us better, women, better disciples, it makes us show up better for our relationships, whether it's with our parents, with our friends, if we have kids in our churches, it makes us better at work. I mean, I really think that authenticity, there's something that comes out differently, even in rote things we are doing, you know, at work, or, you know, productive tasks. I just think it's part of being whole people that God created us to be.

Becky Brown: 26:15

Yeah, I completely agree. And yeah, there's just so much there waiting for us when we ask him to join us in there. You know, David always comes to mind. I love David. He's my soul guy, yep, in Scripture, in the Psalms, because every Psalm, maybe not everyone. Most of the Psalms come out of these really big emotions. And David doesn't tone him down. He uses big flowery language that I love, I love, and he recognizes and calls out these big emotions, and then he says, this is true about you, God, and this is what I know you're going to do. This is how this is going to play out, because I know you and I trust you, and it's just this amazing process and repetition of faith, in big emotions, in stress and danger and overwhelm and fear and just wow, you can use all of it to draw so near into God's presence.

Laurie Graham: 27:07

Yeah, so good. All right, sometimes our emotions, especially things like anger or grief or anxiety, are really tied to deeper experiences like trauma or even extreme burnout. And we are not going into trauma talk right now everyone, but at the lead well conference, we have several counselors, several trauma informed leaders who are going to unpack that a little more in a deeper way. But Becky just from your perspective, how can acknowledging our emotions, like, create a healthier culture around us, like, family, church, school, workplaces, like, how can our individual acknowledging of our own emotions affect the culture around us? What do you think

Becky Brown: 27:50

I man, gosh, it just creates such a sense of safety and such a warm invitation of you. You can come as you are and like if you're broken today, come even then if you're really tired today, come then if you are feeling really worried and anxious, come and if you're feeling angry, come and you don't have to paste on the smile and say, I'm good. How are you to that? Dang. How are you question? And yeah, being trauma informed just creates so much more compassionate curiosity. That's a phrase that you and I use a lot, just to be more curious, instead of throwing out the Christian cliches that try to fix it, oh yeah, just trust God and it'll be fine, but the space that it creates, starting with every day. I mean, yes, leaders have a huge impact on their humility and their own experience of emotions, expressing their emotions, and how, how they handle that, that's good too. But my goodness, every single person that shows up at church, think about what a difference it can make. If somebody smiles at you, if somebody asks, How are you really you know, like those, those little things, you can change a whole church culture by by creating more you, you listening. You can create your whole church culture by showing up in a way that acknowledges your own struggles, but in like in safe ways, with open boundaries, you don't have to gush, pour out all your guts to the stranger at church. But yeah, there's just a really beautiful thing when people show how they're walking with God in the anger, in the fear, in the upsetness, in the discomfort?

Laurie Graham: 29:33

Yeah, you know, when I phrased that question to you and said healthier culture, the first thing that came to my mind was being the non anxious person in the room. But that's not the reality of what we're talking about. We're not talking about being non anxious and calm and happy and peaceful all the time. That's the Jesus frosting part. Not that we shouldn't be or couldn't be. It's just that it's not normal or real or authentic to live on that plane all the time. And I think the healthy culture does get created when we can safely and within boundaries share. Yeah, I'm a little bit angry by that, and even in that stepping away, you know, I think sometimes when we talk about boundaries, it's you cross my boundary, so I'm going to step away. What about just when our emotions are causing me not to have a soft voice? And I can say, You know what, something that's happening at this meeting right now, or something in this space, I am just feeling like I need to step away, because I'm feeling. A little bit a little bit triggered, a little bit angry, a little bit and I just want to take that to Jesus before I continue here. You know, like I think sometimes the boundaries are, are us not managing or controlling our emotions, but responding to them,

Becky Brown: 30:46

right, responding to them and not requiring others to respond in a way, but you, you, you can respond to your emotions and care for them. Well, yes, with Jesus, but like you get to choose and and you can only choose when you recognize it, right? And so when you feel those things bubbling up, it's changing your whole response. Because my whole response was, shove them aside. That's you. You're not welcome in this meeting. I have to get through this. We have to make these decisions. But when you welcome them. Gosh. Think about the relationships that could be more authentic and whole and deep and impactful, and how that spreads from leadership down to every single person in your church. It is powerful.

Laurie Graham: 31:24

Yeah, it is so powerful. And I know we're talking mostly for women, and we said we're setting this up for women, you know, today, and I hope there's some men who've listened to this entire thing because Becky, you have a pastor who's very emotionally you have a male pastor who's very emotionally connected. And how does that make a difference for you?

Becky Brown: 31:41

Oh, it is just, oh gosh, I just feel at home. This is my second male pastor. My Colorado pastor also was a male pastor very attuned to his own emotions, and very much, there's so much humility that comes with it, so much because he'll come in and say, I was an anxious wreck this week, and let me tell you how I responded in an unhealthy way. And let me tell you where I am today, and my prayers to get me where I am. And it just invites authenticity and just allows you to kind of let your guard down a bit and just create a safer, healthier space to be human and to be imperfect and to invite Jesus in.

Laurie Graham: 32:23

Yeah, yeah. We are almost running out of time. Becky and I just want to remind everybody who's listening, our goal today was to bring this conversation up to the surface, right? Like to try to start letting emotions resurface and just doing a little shift from emotions bad, emotions invitation. You know what I mean? Emotions are not bad, they're not in the way. They're not obstacles. They're actually invitations to grow deeper and to really acknowledge the truth. And I believe it's totally truth that we cannot grow spiritually without growing emotionally. And so many times we separate these and say, Nope, that doesn't need to grow. I'm going to I'm going to work through discipleship. I'm going to grow in all these ways. I'm going to grow in knowledge, I'm going to grow in intellect, I'm going to grow in how I can answer questions. I can grow in, you know, giving a foundation for my faith kind of thing, but that emotions are so tied into our spiritual growth, and we're never done growing emotionally. Like, if you feel like you've arrived and you've heard enough Brene Brown or something like, it's not it's not true. None of us were not arrived. None of us will ever be arrived. We can always be growing in emotional health, awareness, processing and really, you know, pressing into that invitation from God So Becky before we totally run out of time. What are a couple, you know, maybe one or two small Grace filled, little practices that you could say, hey, hey, listeners, try this this week so we can move from managing our emotions to attuning to them with God.

Becky Brown: 33:55

So I would say one of the most powerful tools that I use these days is the brain dump, and so often when I start my quiet times in the morning. But like, I use them all the time when I'm feeling overwhelmed, stressed, over, stimulated, pulled in all the directions, frantic, frazzled, when I can't, like, clear my thoughts, I do a brain dump. And I can't even tell you how much help I have gotten from just writing down the feeling words and even the situations, but the feeling words of I feel scattered. Okay, well, we can work with that. We can figure out how to move forward. You feel scattered and just so, yeah, I use brain dumps all the time, where whatever I'm thinking, feeling the song lyrics through my head, stick figures in my head, I dump it on a page, and then I can start to sort through them. And part two of a brain dump is what I've mentioned before, is just praying through it and inviting God to journey with you in it alongside you, saying, Lord, use my blank, my anger to know you more here. What it Lord, how are you using my disappointment to to teach me more about you today? How is your faithfulness showing up in my sadness today, in my grief today, just questions to invite him to respond to you and listen

Laurie Graham: 35:15

so good. Another tool that I love is either a list or the emotion wheel, like when we actually have a list of emotion words. Because if you grew up in a typical family these days, we're all really good with happy, sad, angry. Sad, right? But as far as the nuances of confusion or perplexed or ignored or abandoned or rejected, like these are all different words in this wonderful English language that really mean different things. And when we boil it down to happy, sad, mad, angry, we're really missing part of that invitation. So I think pulling up, like I have an emotional wheel on my shelf right now, I also listen to me, and in saying that, I'd also like to say to everybody listening, it's not just for you. Bring this to your friends. Becky, like, how do you and I start most of our conversations? You tell them, Go ahead.

Becky Brown: 36:08

How are you coming into today? How are you waking up this morning? That's our big question.

Laurie Graham: 36:13

Almost always we did it before we hit record on the podcast, Becky was laughing like, I just feel like I should ask you how you're checking in today, and and, and when, when I say I'm I'm having a hard day, or Becky will actually say, Well, are you, you know, she'll actually feed me some different emotion words. And can I just suggest that everybody listening you do this with whoever you live with, with your friends, with your small group at church, like, can we quit trying to get all the all the information into every lesson, and actually get attuned to our own emotions. You might teach kids on a Sunday. Can you just stop and say, Hey, how's everybody feeling? Did you know God gave us our emotions? Like we've ignored our emotions for so long. How do you feel today? Because if we can help each other, whether we're teaching, sharing in a friendship group, even at a fun bowling night, I don't care. It's a great mixer to start with, and I think it it raises our awareness of how God speaks to

Becky Brown: 37:09

us. Absolutely, absolutely. I feel like

Laurie Graham: 37:13

I should ask you to explain your definition or how you wrap yourself around the word attunement.

Becky Brown: 37:19

Oh, oh, good. I think

Laurie Graham: 37:21

this is important. And we've used the word attunement a couple times in this in this episode, and haven't really defined it. And okay,

Becky Brown: 37:29

so I would say similar to alignment, but tuning meaning, like, think about a radio i You can't see my fingers right now, but I'm like, turning a radio knob where it's kind of static you can hear a little bit, a little bit, but like tuning in, and that, that tuning in can be to your emotions, like, ooh, that emotion word doesn't fit quite right. I think it might be this or this, like turning the dial to just narrow in on what exactly is going on. But it's also like aligning, attuning with God's heart, where, you know our conscience is kind of like, Ah, you're not there yet. This isn't it yet, that response that you had to your anger last time that doesn't feel authentic to you and how God created you to be. So how are you going to just fine tweak that the next time. How do you want to respond next time? What? What feels like it might so that attunement. It's a process. It's a process, I think, of a musical instrument. It's a process of just finally, like, very slightly shifting one way and another, until you you get it in alignment where you're like that. That is it. That's what I've been waiting for. This aligns with the truth of God's Word and God's character that I know about in Scripture is heart, my heart, yeah, actions, words, all

Laurie Graham: 38:41

of it. That phrase from come Thou Fount, font is in my head like come Thou Fount, tune my heart to sing Thy praise. And I also just want to say, as we get ready to close, anger, fear, annoyance, frustration. These are not bad emotions. Anger often is protective. Fear often is protective. Annoyance, these are letting us see what it is that we're scared of, what it is so that God can meet us in these places, you know. So let's stop judging our emotions. Let's bring them to the surface. Let's talk about them. Yes, let's invite God into them. Let's not speak in anger or start screaming at people or anything like that. It's not we're talking about but we're talking about knowing how we feel, because it's part of the way that God created us to be so

Becky Brown: 39:30

good, core values and beliefs to the surface priorities. It really is clarifying.

Laurie Graham: 39:35

Yeah, so good. It's so hard to stop talking now, as I know, okay, but we're gonna have to So Becky, thank you for being on this show, and thank you for sharing your heart and your story. So honestly, you all we are this is one of the things we'll be talking about the conference. There's so many more things. We're going to be talking about leadership and calling, with or without a title. We're going to be talking about emotional health and trauma informed ministry, not just about you, but about the people we serve. We're going to be talking about burnout, boundaries and balance. We're going to be talking about healthy teams and really practical ministry skills. And we're going to be talking about mixed gender and male dominated spaces also, and we're also going to be talking about resistant and traditional church cultures. So this lead well conference that is coming up for women in small churches, we're talking about how to quit doing all the things and doing the things that God's called you to do, and doing them well and with excellence. And we're going to be doing it together. So we are so excited. And Becky, you're going to be speaking at the conference. You excited?

Becky Brown: 40:37

I am excited. I can't wait. This is such a relationship based conference. I can't wait.

Laurie Graham: 40:42

I know it's going to be so great. So please don't miss it. Becky is going to be talking about slower, wiser, kinder, from obligation to attunement. So again, that's in another one of those ministry spaces, as well as burnout and boundaries. So we cannot wait for that. Your emotions are just not too much. They're not a problem to fix. They are just one of the ways that God is inviting you to draw closer to Him. And this conversation that you just got to be part of with Becky and I is also just the beginning. Becky is one of the speakers at the lead well conference for women in small churches that is happening September 27 it is. It is a full day of honest, practical and hope filled sessions designed for women just like us. Title or No, title, it's for you. So you can grab your free ticket in just a couple days at small church summits.com. If the free tickets are not live yet, there'll be a wait list there. So sign up so you'll be the first one to know and make sure to share this conference with the women around you and your church. We're all in this together. We all need encouragement and support at different levels, and I promise there's going to be something for everybody at this conference. It is such a great mix of topics and categories. You're going to love it. So Becky. Thank you so much for being with us today. I can't wait for everybody to hear more from you at the conference and to everybody listening. Keep showing up, keep leading well. And as always, be light