173: Recognizing & Connecting With Hurting Kids: Broken Families, Shifting Realities, & Small Churches | with Melissa J. MacDonald

In this powerful episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast, host Laurie Graham sits down with Melissa MacDonald to explore the critical role of recognizing and connecting with hurting kids in small church settings. 

Melissa shares her personal experiences as a foster parent, after-school program director, and ministry leader, offering practical insights on how to love, support, and disciple children from challenging backgrounds. 

Learn how to shift your ministry mindset from lesson completion to heart connection, and discover why every child matters - regardless of church size or resources. 

Perfect for volunteers, ministry leaders, and anyone passionate about making a difference in children's lives.

Connect with Melissa J. MacDonald:
www.melissajmacdonald.com

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www.smallchurchsummits.com

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Transcript

Laurie Graham: 0:01

Hey, welcome to the small church ministry podcast, where we help volunteers and ministry leaders experience less stress, more joy and greater impact as we share strategies that actually do work in smaller churches. I'm your host. Laurie Graham, let's dive in. You. Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of the small church ministry podcast. If you listening live when this is released, we are so excited because we are moving toward one of our favorite conferences of the year. There's a free conference happening at the end of April for Kidman and youth ministry, specifically in smaller churches, where we are addressing everything you don't get at a typical conference, when small churches show up and they're like, I can't do that. We only have three kids, or I can't break into small groups, because we are a small group. And so we love to really just talk about the basis, the basic ministry pattern that Jesus Christ Himself followed when he was walking around on the planet, and you don't need 100 kids. You don't need 30 kids. You don't even need three kids to have an amazing ministry to children. And so as a guest on our podcast today, we have one of our absolute favorite speakers of all time, Melissa MacDonald, is with us today, and Melissa, do you want to introduce yourself just a little bit, little bit of your background, who you are, what you do, what's important in your life, even right now, happy

Melissa J. MacDonald: 1:23

to do that. I love being on I love love, love being a part of different conferences and supporting small churches is huge part of my little life. And so I love that I get to do that I live in southwest Iowa, and in fact, we left a more traditional church and started a church plant, kind of accidentally out of a nonprofit serving it's called persistent hope, and we are just offering hope to those who are down and out in our community. And from that came a Sunday gathering, and we average about 60 people a Sunday. And Laurie, you'll love this. We meet in the county's oldest church building. So at the historical center, it's a one room. There's no bathroom. You have to go out and around and like a real bathroom in the other building. And so we are the epitome of the small church and doing that. So I live in southwest Iowa my husband. We are foster and adoptive parents. We have an 11 year old. We adopt it a year ago, and then right now, we have a 17 year old foster son who lives with us as well. I run an after school ministry program for at risk kids here in my hometown, and then I'm a speaker. So I go all over and speak as well, and I write, and love doing that, but I always say, like, the most important work I do is here at home and in my hometown. And if you listen to me, or if you listen to any speaker, and they're not actually practicing what they're talking about, turn them off. Go away. Close the book. So not to say I'm perfect, but I am a practitioner of what I talk about, so I literally do it. So yeah, so that is, and I just, we just moved into this grand old, 125 30 year old house, and it's huge, and we're trying to settle in so we can say yes to more foster kids down the road. And so we, life is a bit chaotic at the moment, but I am here, and I have a chair and a desk set up in my office, so we're gonna call that a win.

Laurie Graham: 3:25

Well, you and I could talk about so many things, and we have in the past so many different areas of children's ministry, of youth ministry, and today, our focus is going to be talking about recognizing and connecting with herding kids. How to recognize and connect with hurting kids, why it's important? We're going to hopefully talk a little bit about broken families, shifting realities of today's world, and specifically small churches. But before we jump into that, you grew up as a pastor's kid in a small church.

Melissa J. MacDonald: 3:55

Yes, I did. I have been a pastor's kid my whole life. My dad's still a pastor, and then I was a pastor, children's pastor, so yes, I grew up and it was just normal. It was just a part of life, and I am part of the best parts of who I am are because of that. Part of the reasons I'm in therapy is because I'm a pastor of kid as well. But so much goodness came out of that. So I have a real love for the local church, and especially little churches. And I'm in a very rural area. Our town's about 5500 but we're the biggest for about a 3040, mile radius. So So I really do understand small, rural and all that. So I have just a big heart for it. Yeah, I

Laurie Graham: 4:37

love to ask this question when I'm I'm able to be face to face with people who have experienced different size ministries because, and you're speaking at camps and different churches, and I know you do a lot of consulting and things like that, because so often the person who's in the smaller church, and that's their experience, they often have this feeling of it's less. Ministry, or if I was doing a better job, more kids would come, or, God, put me here because I don't have the skills. I hate that one. That one just burns me that I don't have the skills to be at a larger ministry. And I feel the opposite about this. Can you talk a little bit about why you believe small church, small number ministry truly is significant. Like, we're not just trying to make people feel good. Like, you know, just grab what you have. Like, I believe it's really significant, and I know you have that heart too. Can you just talk about that a little bit before we jump into hurting kids?

Melissa J. MacDonald: 5:35

Yeah, yeah. I um, so I always think, like, each of us has a gifting in the body of Christ. And I really believe each church community, faith community, has a spot for the body of Christ as well. And I there are people that are never going to connect with a big church, with a mega church, with the church down the road, and they need us. They need us to be who we are in all of our littleness and all of our authenticness, whatever that looks like. And so I think if we spent last time, less time competing, or even less time questioning or doubting or looking it with longing elsewhere, I think we would see a very rich ministry way right where we're at. And I firmly believe God has designed faith communities for specific people to find a home there. And so when we I try never numbers, like my thing, especially, I've been like, you know, professional speaker for 15 years. I It's never the numbers. It's I always tell God like I want to do it for the one like God just give me one. And there are times God will give me one in a room of five, and there's time that God will give me one in a room of 3000 but I have always just gotten God just give me purpose for one. That's all I need. And I think when we look at our small ministries, small number ministries and stuff, we need to go. But am I serving one like is one being impacted, and I might even be the one is God working in me. And so I think it's very important, and I think we have to remember, I mean, there's people that are going to be target shoppers, Walmart shoppers, and then you have people that come to my little fairway store and red oak, and that is where Red Oak, Iowa, where I live, that's where they're going to always buy their groceries. That's where they feel at home, that's where they belong, and that's great. So I think we need to not worry so much about, you know, copy and paste of what should be and just go, God, what do you have for me here with the numbers we have, and not get discouraged if those numbers are small. And in fact, I would say be encouraged, because as long as you're doing important ministry, and people are finding Jesus and following Jesus, that's all matters. That's what it's about. So yeah,

Laurie Graham: 7:48

and when you said important ministry, what came to mind immediately for me was that one person, because I believe that ministry, those relationships we have with one are deeper. It's more relational, and because of that, it's more insightful, because we know we know them, we know each other, and there's a trust. So Okay, thanks for sharing that, Melissa, so let's talk about hurting kids, and I'm just gonna let you go wherever you want with this, like where your heart went, why your heart is bent toward even being an advocate for foster, fostering, whatever that is, and let's relate it to the church along the way. But, but how should our hearts be set when it comes to kids and hurting kids?

Melissa J. MacDonald: 8:30

Great question. Um, well, I think we always have to go back to who Jesus is, who Jesus was when he was here on Earth, and he he went to the messy, he went to the broken, he went to the ones that were the least of these. And the more I learn about Jesus, the more I want to be like Jesus, and the more I find my life to be chaotic and not as neat and clean as I think I would want sometimes. And so we're my husband, we're not heroes, like people used to say, Oh, you guys are heroes. And I'd be like, No. Now I'll kind of say no, we kind of are, and maybe we should have a whole month devoted to us or something, because it is the hardest thing I have ever done. Like, I'm like, Yes, get me a ribbon, but make me a shirt. Um, but all we've done is try to be obedient to what God's laid on our heart. And I always like to preface anytime I talk about this, don't hear this as a guilt trip or as a, oh my word. Why haven't I had that laid on my heart? If you haven't had it laid on your heart, the Holy Spirit has a different thing for you. So don't panic. I mean, I think sometimes we get so worried about, well, maybe I God will show you. God will reveal it. Now, if you're being disobedient, that's a whole other podcast. And, you know, step in the room and we'll talk about it, but not today. But God calls us to different things, and so what we wanted to do is just be obedient and say yes, what God was calling us to do. Now, for me personally, that has always meant we're working with with hurting, working with messy. Working with broken. I think God has just always given me eyes for that. I'm not really interested in speaking at churches, being in churches where they don't serve the messy and the broken. And I just am not I don't think that is I don't like, Can Jesus work in there? Sure, but I think Jesus dwells in the place where we serve the least of these. And so, like, I just preached at a church in Seattle two weeks ago, and this church has this giant building, but they're using the giant building to serve their community, and they're helping immigrants, and they're helping homeless. And I'm like, I want to be here. This is where I want to be. So, so for us, it was God, what do you have? And we felt God stirring us for foster care. And I didn't, you know, you don't really want that, because it's, you know, it's going to be hard, and yet God has affirmed it over and over and over again. But I want to tell a quick story. Last night, I was serving at our little local community youth group, and I am in charge of I have a small group of middle school girls, so pray for me. Bless me. Indeed. Send me Starbucks cards because of the drama. So one, we have a new one who comes and she introduces herself. And the more we're talking in our small group, I'm like, she's got a little faith. I'm like, That's so interesting. I don't know her small town. I feel like I know everyone. So I went after I said, When did you like, how did you meet God? And she goes, I don't know. I was just in bed one night, and I just felt like I needed to give my life to God and and so I'm listening this. I'm like, that's great, but still, how did you meet God? And she's like, like, how did you first hear about God? My grandma prayed for me. She really loved religion. So then I said, Hey, what's last name? And she told me, and all sudden, I went, Oh, my goodness, I know this little girl who's now in seventh grade, and in 2020, when the pandemic hit, we, you know, live in a small town, and I was grounded from flying. I was stuck. We all were and I started walking in my neighborhood and just praying. And there was one house in particular, scary house, that I was like, Oh, but I would pray for and the teenage boy, their pre teen, teen, young teen boy, started coming to our house, and he would start doing yard work for us. Well, one day, he brought his little sister and I served him popsicles. And we just wanted to be light. We just wanted to be kindness. We just, you know, so I served in popsicles. Well, here, this is that same little girl who's now in seven, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I prayed for you like I have prayed for you. What the heck? And I think sometimes we have to remember that there are times where we serve in our local church and they come to us, and there's times where we're just liked in our neighborhood, and we're kindness wherever we're at. But I was so I'm still, like, processing all of it, because I was like, What the heck I've had her in my yard. I served her and, like, their dog's name was demon. And so, like, you know, I had to yell at demon. And I was like, I'm so uncomfortable, like, so many things. So my thought is, like, if this is something, God's laid on your heart, he brings these kids to you as well, especially if you're open to it and you're available and and I'm not going to say like, oh, because I prayed for her this, but I'm like, Oh my goodness. Like we have a connection. So when it comes to recognizing hurting kids, it's not that hard to recognize hurting kids. We just have to ask God to give us eyes to notice. Because if we're really honest, especially a lot of times in our in our good churches, we the messy and the hurting is hard. It doesn't look neat and clean. They don't sit crisscross applesauce. And I'll tell you this, you kids are hurting in your church. If they're walking through the door, they're hurting. There's no kid growing up today that doesn't have a hurt, and we, we will minimize their hurt as adults, because we'll put it in our framework, and that's unfair to them, because what's hard for them is hard. And I would also say what you think is hard for them, you probably don't even have an idea of what they're actually struggling with. Um, but then you just gotta go, God, open my eyes. Help me to see and when, when I really began to pray that, and we really began to go, God, you know, make us available. Amazing, what God does when we're available and when we just offer ourselves. So I think we need to go, and you have to be ready. It's kind of like telling God, I don't want to go to Africa as a missionary. Like, you know, that's kind of the old joke, like, well, good luck. Then you're going to, yeah, but my thing is, like, if you're going to ask God to give you eyes to see the hurting and a heart for the hurting, buckle up, because he will. And with that comes all that comes with it. However, I will say, I also think that is where the Holy Spirit just gives you exactly what you need when you need it. And I would never want to go back, but it's hard. So they're out there and so recognizing them, first of all, just recognizing they're hurting. The other thing is, as you get to know them, you become a trusted person, and they tell you. So like my after school program I run, I have 54 kids in it. Bunch of them are out. Risk. The longer I see them, the more they tell me. So I have four right now that are homeless, and they're telling me where they're sleeping. I have another one whose dad is depressed and has stopped leaving the house like I have story after story, and they don't tell me because I asked them. They tell me because I'm available and I'm open and I'm kind. So I don't know, I'm saying a lot of things. Ask a follow up question there, but I would say, ask God to give you part an eye, eyes and a heart for the hurting is the first place to start.

Laurie Graham: 15:31

You know, I love when you said, because this is my belief too. I just love talking to you. I feel like I'm like, brain connecting, like we totally vibe, you know? But when you said that every kid is hurting. I was like, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you because we put these nice, clean packages around that's a great family, that's a nice family, that's a that's a kid who behaves, that's somebody who knows what's going on and the hurt in every family, in every kid, in every growing up story, it's there. And I think of Sunday school, because we have a lot of people teach in Sunday School listening to us right now. You know, they're in their car, driving, they're on the treadmill, whatever, and they're like, but I teach Sunday school, how do I get these kids to behave? Because in my mind, that's where the hurt shows up in the I'm not listening. I don't fit in. I'm going to talk out. I am. I am not even getting this at all. I don't, you know, there's so much hurt that comes out in Sunday school. And our goal, our goals sometimes collide, right? Like, my goal is to get this lesson in. My goal is to love kids. My goal is to see the hurting. How do we make that all fit? Because Melissa, you are also a good teacher. You've spoken for us about teaching lessons and curriculum and getting the most out of it and bringing the Bible to life. How do we do these things at the same time recognize and connect with hurting kids and get our lesson in? So, so

Melissa J. MacDonald: 17:57

great question. Sometimes we have to change what our what our goal is, and what, what I've had to do through the years is change my goal. My goal is not that I get my lesson in or that I accomplish my lesson. It's that I connect with every kid that God brings through the door that changes things that that doesn't mean I throw the curriculum out. And for those that are listening, who are particularly, bless your hearts, you're particularly, maybe type A or really Uber organized. I am not you're going, but I have it all figured out. I'm ready. Thank you for being ready. I will also tell you, the more ready you are, the more available you are for the Holy Spirit to interrupt. And that's a really beautiful thing. So I wish I was a little more ready sometimes, but I have had to really change my expectation. And when I took my my home church through this, we really had to strip it down to what is our goal for this midweek program tonight. And I would every day, every Wednesday night, I would reframe it, hey, just a reminder, we have kids coming who never get a positive touch. They're hurt a lot. So as we minister and love them and we work on our lessons today, would you make sure every kid gets a high five and just kind of like, that's going to be our goal, not that we get through the lesson, not that they memorize the verse, not that I feel good about the craft project, but that every kid got a positive touch. We had our after school program. In fact, I was pulling it up so I could read it. We have three things that I always remind my volunteers of. First of that is that every child has a story. So every kid who comes in has a story. Let's just remember that they all have a story, just like you and I have a story. Number two, every child deserves love and respect. They deserve our love and respect. They may not act loving or respectful towards me, but they are image bearers of God, and they are dearly loved by their Savior, and therefore I can give them love and respect, is that hard? Sometimes, 100% did I possibly get frustrated with my group on Tuesday at that yes, but the reality is, they deserve my love and respect, and then number three is that we're here to provide a safe place where they know they're loved and welcome no matter what, that's our goal. None of those are behavior driven. None of those are in fact, we don't even really we have expectations. We don't have rules. Expectation is we respect ourselves, we respect others, and we respect the building that we're in the space. They're not rules. But what we what I've had to do is reframe it for myself first, and then for my volunteers, for my team, whoever that looks like. But when we're thinking small ministry, small numbers, a lot of times it's just me, and I have to go, Mel, it's okay. It's okay if you don't get that through. And I'll give you this, and I'm not trying to give you a bunch of listed things, but what I asked myself, when. I feel like something's gone haywire. So we have a sunday sunday school that goes haywire. It's that day. You're like, is it a full moon? What is going on? I'm talking it's every day. Yes. And honestly, if you're reaching hurting families and hurting kids, it will feel like it's every day. So I'll ask myself, did I do the best I could with what I had available today? If the answer is yes, I take a deep breath and relax. If it's No, I go. I could have done this. I could have changed this. And then I asked myself, was I obedient, like did I listen to the Holy Spirit and do what he asked me to do? If the answer is yes, I take a deep breath and go on. If it's a no talk to the Holy Spirit, I confess that. And I feel like there's a third one. I don't remember what it is off the top of my head, but then I kind of end at that. And then I literally will tell myself, like Mel, Go in peace. Go in peace, because you are not the Holy Spirit. And so whether that felt good or not does not matter, because he will work through chaos. He will work. And I often find God does his best work when I feel the most defeated because I'm like, nothing went right. So, yeah, you want them to behave, but, but the reality is, in fact, I tell kids your job is not because they'll go, I'll say, What's your job to listen great. And in fact, the the seminar breakout that I'm doing for the upcoming conference is going to be talking a little bit about this, and so it's not to listen. I'll tell them your job is to be on the lookout for why God has you here. Why? Why does God want you here? Because what that does is it takes them from being passive observers to active participants, so suddenly they have a job as well. And I have found, even with the most hurting kid, that changes things because they're like, they're on it, they're like, looking for it. And so those are some of the things I do. I know you want to get through the lesson, but there's times where I just reframe what the lesson is. I just go, man, I want every kid here to know that they're loved. That's our goal. And so on Tuesday at my after school program, they were they were crazy, and at one point I got very firm, and I said, you know, like it's a privilege for you to get to be here, and I want you here because I love you, and you are safe here, and you're welcome here. However, if you do not respect the rules. You know, the expectations that we have, I can't have you here, and what I did and what we can do is very kindly, in a loving way, set expectations. And it doesn't mean I yelled, it doesn't mean I had an angry face. I was just firm and I was loving towards them. And I will find, I have found with most kids who are hurting or from brokenness, they are desperate for someone to give them boundaries and to go, here's the line. Now, for some of them, that's an invitation to know how far to step over. But for a lot of them, it's like, oh, she and I'll even go, I'll go up to I love you. I'm so glad you're here. I know you're having a really hard day. I just need you, can you do your very best not to say the F word today? Like my word, you know, they're like, I can try Miss mount. I'm like, That would be great. I know that word sometimes feels like the right thing to say, but when you're at launch pad, I got it just maybe not. And so it's just doing in a loving way, instead of, well, you said it, you're out, you're going home, or you're kicked out, or you're going to go sit over there. So all that to say, oftentimes, I have found that I have to first deal with my own heart before I worry about what I'm teaching, how I'm teaching, what my expectations are, because if my heart's not in the right place, I'm not a good teacher no matter what, because I have set the wrong kind of goals, and I want them to listen, so that I feel like I'm a good teacher. Well, that's dumb, you know? That's not helpful. So the more I do, some real part prep, part reflection, and then I serve out of that place of every child has a story. Every child deserves my love and respect and these because my after school program is an overtly Christian, every child has a story, and God is in their story. Every child deserves love and respect, just like God shows love and respect to me, we're here to provide a safe place where they can encounter God. Those are kind of those underlying things that aren't on paper. So it changes how you teach

Laurie Graham: 25:12

it. You know, as you're talking the thing that the image that keeps coming to my mind is just having your heart turned toward that kid, like it's a turn of your heart, maybe away from the lesson in a peripheral way, but your heart is turned toward toward that student. And I think the three things you just said, which I already written down earlier, when you said it was that every child has a story. Every child deserves love and respect, whether or not they are acting lovingly or respectfully. And that that we need to have safe places where every kid is loved and welcomed. And I think this is what builds trust. It does, you know, and so many people have lost trust of the church and of people in the church, the church. Broadly, you know, the church, we've lost trust of the church. I think that's a huge thing happening in our society. And you know, what doesn't build trust is having your lesson in order. It's a good thing, like we can be prepared, right? But that's not the piece that builds trust. And I, I just love everything that you said, Melissa, so at the end talk, oh, go ahead.

Melissa J. MacDonald: 26:13

Oh no, I was gonna say I talk in my book, because I had a book come out last year, discipling, world changers, and I talk about how we as teachers, leaders, parents, whatever that looks like, we really want people to listen to us. But the generation that we're serving today, even that generation before, is going, I don't want to listen to you because I don't know you, and I don't know you because I don't trust you. And so what they're saying is like, if you want me to listen to you, I need to know you, and I need to trust you. And too often we circumvent that because we're like, but I'm in charge. I'm the leader, I'm the teacher, I'm the boss, I'm the pastor, I'm the whatever. And what we've done is actually kind of just take our take ourselves off at the knees, because we aren't, we aren't teaching in a way that helps them get there. So it's kind of finding, like finding the secret equation, like, oh, I want the and that's what, that's what I love teaching, because I love kids, and I can, man, I have 200 kids every summer that sit and listen to me, and people can't believe they listen to me. Well, it's because I have this whole like, I earn their trust, and the trust card is so important, and you can't earn trust if you're not first checking your own heart and then being willing to be a little vulnerable. Well, it's a lot of times we go, vulnerability scares me, and what if people I'll go, blah. Well, the reality is, vulnerability, we lose nothing, but we gain so much. Yeah, so the more. So in fact, in my after school program, when I go over, we all meet at the beginning, and I go over our expectations before I do that, I always tell them a story from my day or from my week, and it's the quickest story. But what they do is they listen, and they get to know me, and they're going, I know you. I can trust you. I'm going to listen to you. So now I've earned I've earned the trust instead of trying to force the trust. And I think the church needs to be really careful, because we have done damage through the years by saying, Well, we're in charge. You need to listen to us. God appointed us, or whatever. And that's why we have a lot of people deconstructing because, and some of it's good, deconstructed like, I'm there, I'm like, Yeah, I don't agree with that. But I think we did damage by saying, well, because of this, you need to listen to us. That's gaslighting. That's that's not true. And so the more we humble ourselves, I love that you said, Turn our heart for the child. And I always think of who Jesus what Jesus did when he the kids came, and he's like, Let them come. Let them come. Don't hinder them. We know that these kids did not come clean. Somebody's nose was running, because somebody's nose is always running. If you have children, like, right? And somebody, honestly, a boy, probably farted, because that's like the most fun thing to do. So, like, I can imagine, you know, the disciples are like, this is a disaster. And then I always like, Jesus, yeah, let them come. And so, yeah, who am I to say? Don't let them come. Or, yeah, I don't like how they're treating me, or I don't like how they're acting like, Let them come. Don't hinder them.

Laurie Graham: 29:04

Yeah. So since you mentioned the talk that you're going to be leading at one of our sessions at the Kidman conference coming up, that was, that was great. That was what I was going to actually lead into. Like, what? Why should people come here that talk of yours like, what? What are you? Who are you talking to? And who needs to show up for that one?

Melissa J. MacDonald: 29:23

Yeah, so it's, it's called discipling world changers. It's based on the book I wrote. And the premise is, what if we raise up a generation that changes the world instead of the world changing them? Yeah, one of the things that I, and I'm not tooting my own horn, but I do really well is, I don't just give you good stories and good theory, I give you really practical ideas that you can immediately implement. And I think that's gold, like, I spent a lot of years listening to leaders and teachers and speakers and being like, that sounds great. So how do I do else in Wonderland, like, what on earth? So then it's so if you know you're coming on Saturday, I'm going to give you things you can absolutely 100% start Sunday morning. Yeah, it's and it's going to be simple, and it will make, in the long run, it will make a really change in the depth of what you're doing and how effectively you're doing it. So I would love to have you come. You there's a bunch of other great speakers as well, but I'm big on giving you really practical tools. And hopefully you hear me saying, I do this every day. So this is, you know, this isn't a theory. This is, in actuality, this is what I do, and what I have found works really well. Yeah,

Laurie Graham: 30:31

I love it. I love it. Um, y'all, if you haven't gotten a free ticket to the conference yet, just go to small church summits.com. Grab a free ticket the entire day. The whole day is live, and it's free, and there's 27 speakers this year as crazy

Melissa J. MacDonald: 30:45

like, I'm like, How do I do this? How do I do this? And they're all so good.

Laurie Graham: 30:49

So grab a ticket to that, and you can catch another session by Melissa MacDonald, thank you for being with us. Alyssa, you are just amazing. And I just love your heart and the stories that you share. We all should have stories like these. Every single one of us, you know, I really believe, has been called to be a light, as you mentioned, in your neighborhood, in your community, you know, whether you're at work or school or walking around, not just in our churches, like where we're at, and so I love it. Thanks for being with us. Melissa, all right. For everybody listening. You know what? You know what to do this week. Be a light, and we'll catch up next week.