170: A Great Children's Ministry Doesn’t Require A Building, A Budget, Or A Brand | with Angela Marks

Join Laurie Graham and special guest Angela Marks in this inspiring episode of the Small Church Ministry Podcast as they dive deep into children's ministry. 

Angela shares her transformative journey from an IT professional to a passionate children's minister, revealing how a great children's ministry isn't about big budgets or fancy programs, but about seeing the incredible potential in every child.

In this episode: 

• Discover how to minister effectively with limited resources
• Learn to see children's potential beyond their current behavior
• Understand the power of affirmation and personal testimony
• Gain strategies for staying motivated when ministry feels challenging
• Hear powerful stories of transformation from Angela's ministry experience

Whether you're serving in a small church or feeling discouraged by low attendance, this episode will reignite your passion and help you see ministry through a lens of hope, love, and possibility.

Connect with Angela Marks:
www.youtube.com/@AngelaMarks
www.instagram.com/angelammarks

Get your free ticket to the Small Church KidMin + Youth Ministry Conference:
www.smallchurchsummits.com

Join our free Facebook Community: www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministry


Rate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts

"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" << If that's like you, please consider rating and reviewing my show! This helps Small Church Ministry support and reach more people -- just like you -- in small churches! Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then, let us know what you loved most about this episode!

Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. This is the best way to stay updated on the new episodes we release weekly. If you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on future episodes. Follow now!

Get the Ministry Bundles here!

Transcript

Laurie Graham: 0:01

Hey, welcome to the small church ministry podcast, where we help volunteers and ministry leaders experience less stress, more joy and greater impact as we share strategies that actually do work in smaller churches. I'm your host. Laurie Graham, let's dive in. You. Hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of the small church ministry podcast today. Angela marks, who doesn't really need an introduction for those of you who've met her, but I know there's listeners who have never met you, Angela marks, so Angela marks is joining us today to just do a little bit of a dive into children's ministry, and why a great children's ministry doesn't require a building, a budget or a brand. And so before we jump in, Angela, do you want to just introduce yourself and just give a little background of who you are and maybe even how we've found each other? Sure, hi

Angela Marks: 0:54

everybody. Thank you, Laurie, for allowing me to come and just chit chat with you today. I'm excited. So, huh? A little bit about me. So I've been in children's ministry for about 15 years. Interesting story, because I kind of stumbled upon children's ministry. I went to a conference somewhere back in 2008 and I'm walking through this conference, and I ended up being on the wing that they had the children on. Right? You talking about adult conference in the children's section, you know, running beside it, and I'm thinking in the window, and I'm like, Oh, they don't look that energetic like I started to reminisce on how children's ministry was for me growing up. So, you know, I just kind of watched. And then I get home and the Lord just would not let me sleep, and he's like, you do it, you know. And so at that time, I was working in, you know, my career as a GIS analyst, geographical information systems. And so I'm an IT girl, Master's degree nerd. And so that's where I was going in life. And so he says, No, you do it. You bring children's ministry to the level in which you had it when you were coming up, and I think ahead of our times in our church. And so I did that. And so God has been amazing in being able to transform it into what he wanted it to be. But I've had the opportunity to start a puppet ministry in 2009 did that for a very long time, traveling, doing puppets, bringing the Gospel message that way. And then through that, ended up, um, joining a local Methodist Church, becoming the director of children, turning around in my presiding elder over our district said, Hey, you got it lead all 16 churches. And so I ended up doing that, and then from there, just a few people saw me and reached out. And

Laurie Graham: 2:48

do you remember how we connected?

Angela Marks: 2:52

I know it was online. Was it during the pandemic? I'm just

Laurie Graham: 2:57

wondering if did Horace tell me about you? Did I find Horace before you. I think I was looking for conference speakers. And somebody told me about Horace Christian Jr, who does the decks, the deck series, and and he said, I have a friend, Angela. I think that's how we connected. That is so cool. So those of you listening now that you just got to hear our little catch up here, live online, Angela marks is speaking at the upcoming children's ministry conference. She's spoken for many of our conferences in the past. Her energy enthusiasm is amazing. And I know you've also worked Angela in in different scenarios, big church, small church, mid sized church, big stage, small stage, puppet, ministry, lots of different things. And one of the things I always ask my conference speakers, and I remember this of you, because I don't have people speak who don't get small churches and who haven't had experience in them, or don't even just love them like they have to love small churches and not be coming in saying, Hey, if you don't grow you're doing it wrong, right? And I remember asking you about that, and about that, that transition, you know, or that I don't know, the leap to small church ministry, how it's different, and how you feel about and you're like, I can go sit under a tree and talk to the kids at the park like, you're like, there could be four there, like, that's ministry. And you got so excited about just like a park ministry, and it wasn't even something you had to plan ahead of time, like a VBS that you had this big budget for, and you're going to do this big outreach. It's like, no, I'll literally just go sit under a tree with kids, and I'm like, Oh, I love it. So to you, what is children's ministry? Like, what is it? What makes a great children's ministry if it's not numbers, if it's not budgets, if it's not buildings, if it's not you know, the brand. What makes a great children's ministry? I think children's

Angela Marks: 4:43

ministry starts with you. It starts with the person that has been either called to it or the person that sees the need. And that's what happened to me. And so I think that it starts with what you carry on the inside and what you want to share with any child that you encounter. Honor, if that's one, if that's 10, if it's 25 but it most importantly, starts with you. We make children's ministry great. We carry God's light. We carry his word, and we carry his compassion and love for a generation that is calling out for him but don't really know how to be led to him if we don't step in and do it. And so that's really what I think children's ministry is, being so full of the heart and compassion of Jesus Christ, plus the experience that you have personally with with God transforming you. How can you do that to yourself? So people ask me all the time, you can just speak, and I'm like, No, I give my testimony to kids. I tell them what God has done for me, and because I'm so excited about what he did for me, that's how I tell it to them. And so it's just allowing your personal life and testimony with the Lord to become alive, and you sharing it not with just an adult, but with a child.

Laurie Graham: 6:03

Yeah, yeah. Oh, two big questions I have for you right now, and I'm just trying to pick which one to go first. So I'm gonna take this one first. It might seem like a little divergence, but I think it's so key. You said, when you're sharing, you know what God is doing in your life, how excited you are about God. And I think that's one of the things that I see, falling behind taking a second seat to programming in so many of our churches. Like, if, like, we miss that God, like, is not not that we're saved, not just that we're saved, but like, God is currently alive in my life right now and doing these things, and I'm excited about them, because I see him at work even when things are bad or when things are just in the middle or things are good. Like he's always like speaking and moving in my heart, and I'm always feeling nudged. And how do you get that when you don't have it? Because I'm going to tell you right now, for many people, they're burnt out. They're tired. It's like programming isn't working. There aren't enough kids coming. Our churches are dying. The church is too small. If we were doing it right? We would go like, that is the main thing in hearts and minds, and I think there's good motive behind it. We want to do good for Jesus, right? Like, I mean, I don't want to totally smash that feeling either, but I will push back against it. But how do we replace that with look at what God's doing in my life? So

Angela Marks: 7:19

I told myself, I wanted to be real, relevant and relational, right? That's what I wanted to do. I wanted kids to encounter Jesus, and I didn't want kids to have a commercialized Jesus. I wanted kids to encounter a real and authentic Jesus, that no matter what the situation was, they could find him. My story is interesting because I started actually children's ministry, like you said, going to the neighborhoods, but I was going to trailer parks, where parents were on drugs, right? And so trying to pro trying to bring kids into a program that didn't work. I had to bring kids into real life, but real life with Jesus. So just being able to see past a lot of the events, which are great and super amazing, but I needed to reach the heart of the kids first. And so that's what I made priority. And so I think for us to get into that place, we really gotta seek God and say, Hey, these are the children that you have called me to share you with. What do you want me to say? And that was the most simple prayer that I had. Of course, the church had the same programs every year at the same time every year, and I had to do those programs, but I could now do those programs with a different focus, and the focus, what do you want me to give your kids while I'm putting on this particular program that I'm required to do? And so it just changed my perspective, and then the kids needs were met because I came to God with that specific prayer. And so I think it starts with, what is the vision? I asked this question when I went to a church that I'm currently consulting, which is a small church, and I asked them. I told them to close their eyes, and what did they want to see? Imagine children in the church, and where did they want to see these children in the next five years? And I said, Imagine it to the point that when you open your eyes, they're in this room. Laurie, I think we stop imagining what children can be, what they can become. And because I imagine all the time, I get so excited, because what I imagine I expect, and it's our perspective change. Age, seeing them after the Spirit and not after the flesh, being able to reimagine what we can do in our churches. But we don't have to have a whole lot of money. I think I was the brokeest kids pastor minister, because guess what, I had enough money to go to the Dollar Tree, get a hula hoop, hula hoops, jump ropes, potato chips and Capri Suns, and that's what I took with me to the neighborhood, and I saw kids come alive just off of that $10 it starts with the heart, and then for the programs and the things that we do put on, say, the question that I asked, God, what do you want me to provide for these children that you know what they need? And I incorporated it back in, and it made me excited to do it, because I hurt and tell me what they needed, right? Yeah. And then also for the families. So one of the first events I did was a parent night out. I gave these parents an opportunity to spend time with themselves while I allowed the children to come, and I kept them for like five hours at the church. And, I mean, we did a lesson, we did crafts and stuff, but it was something that their parents needed, being able to incorporate those needs and then see that you're making an impact. Yeah, I kind of laughed, because the first time I said this, I said, you're making marks. That can't be a race. And then I realized my last name was marks.

Laurie Graham: 11:39

Oh, that works. That works. You know, Angela, it's really interesting, because the question I asked you originally was, what do you do if you're not excited about Jesus? Like, how do you share what God's doing in your life to kids if you're not excited about Jesus and you like, literally went in this train of Go, go find that one kid, go find those two kids. Go, what do they need? And I thought, I really didn't think about that, because it's not like we have to stop doing ministry and go back and get excited about Jesus, or start wondering why we're not excited about Jesus. Like, when we start meeting with people one on one, like, heart to heart, and we're like, we're just focused on this one, one child, this one teenager, or one neighbor. It, it almost can do that. It can do the same thing when we're inviting God into that, right? Like, I think that's really beautiful, the way that you just kind of answered my question in just a way that I never would have imagined it. So that's really beautiful. So let me ask you a question. You've been on big stages with lots of people. You've been in smaller places with less children, less people, less people around you, mentally or in your heart. What? What is it that helps you see the value when one or two show up, and not the disappointment from the ones who didn't come? What helps you see that? Because that is something that a lot of people struggle embracing, like they feel like they're failing if more kids don't come, because there's, there's more kids, or aren't they coming to see me? Or what it is, how do you do that? Because you do it very well.

Angela Marks: 13:03

Um, I look at the one and realize that a nation can be connected to the one. I look at the one and realize that a classroom can be connected to the one. I look at the one and realize that a whole entire school could be connected to that one child. That's what does it for me, if I miss this one opportunity to pour I never know who that one child has the ability to affect, not only when they leave my space, but when they grow up in the seeds that we have deposited, they could become the next whoever and touch millions, I don't want to miss that opportunity, right? And so opportunity is something that I pay very close attention to. When I'm in the grocery store and I make weird my friend tells me I'm a magnet for kids, and so I'll make eye contact with the child, and then I'll say, you're amazing. I don't know what that you're amazing did, but I believe it did something. And so it's just the impact of one. Um, yeah, Jesus left the 99 to go after the one. He talks about the lost coin, and he talks about the lost heat, and that is all I can think about. I don't know what this one could do. You know why Laurie, I was the one. I was the one that got poured into by a Sunday school teacher that watch me on platforms online like yours and things like that. She She signed into one of the conferences one time, and she's 90 now, and I remember when she called me and was like. I gotta, I can't do nothing but sit here in tears because I never I knew what you had in you, but to live to see it, that's what I think about.

Laurie Graham: 15:13

Wow. So she was your Sunday school teacher, and she saw you speaking at one of our conferences. That is so incredibly sweet.

Angela Marks: 15:21

The log on. I used to do these random Facebook Lives going into talking about how you could use an item to teach. And she was still teaching children's ministry Sunday school. She would literally go to the store or send somebody to go get this stuff, because she never stopped teaching.

Laurie Graham: 15:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know what kind of child you were. I don't know if you were super well behaved or you were the perfect child, but I would love like to talk about this a little bit, not you particularly. But sometimes we think, Oh, here's Angela marks. I would have known if she was my one, like, if she was my one, I would have poured into her, because I would have seen that, and I would have, but that's not my one. Like the two that are coming to me are never going to amount to anything, because they are like. You hear that. It breaks my heart when I hear that, because I think the potential when we see even who Jesus called and who he went after, and you it wasn't the like, I think when Jesus said, Let the little children come to me, it wasn't people were saying, get them away, not because they were well behaved. Everybody like, they were saying, get them away because they were, you know, maybe seemed annoying, or they were misbehaving, or they were loud, or they weren't listening. Or, how do we see that potential?

Angela Marks: 16:39

Um, so I got a quick story, and you

Laurie Graham: 16:41

talked about imagining so I hope you go there

Angela Marks: 16:45

again. But okay, go ahead, I got this quick story that, of course, I'm bringing kids in from the neighborhood in trailer park. I'm in a Methodist Church, average, age 75 and here I go, mother hen with little chickens following me into church, and they didn't know anything about church. No, I mean nothing, long story short, um, so I'm picking them up weekly. And one particular young man became kind of defiant, uh, whatever I would tell him to do, he got an attitude, whatever. So this particular Wednesday night, he gets upset, and he throws a chair at me. And so I see the chair coming, but I immediately zone out and stop focusing on the chair and focus on him. And my whole thought was, God has something special for you. In my mind, I'm like the Holy Spirit is talking to me saying, you know, God has something special for him. You know, God wants to use him. Now, this particular kid could put some cuss words together. This particular kid got suspended for fighting all the time to the point where his mother would put it my name on the school roster, so that they can call me and not her, like, this is the kid I'm talking about. But in that moment, I kept remembering something I learned from Becky Fisher, seeing them after the Spirit and not after the flesh. The flesh is their behavior. The flesh is diagnosis, the flesh is autism, the flesh is ADHD. The flesh is Mama says that he's this, and the school system says he's that. And I saw something different, right? And I don't know, um, in that moment, I'm like, Okay, one thing I know about this kid, he can get the whole room to shift. There's a leader in this kid, but nobody ever decided to take the time to cultivate the leader in this kid. Of course, I moved out of the way to the chair, and I walked up to him, and I began to affirm him, and in that moment, the anger begin to release, because nobody told him that he was amazing, and people didn't tell them that they loved him, and people didn't see his potential. I could have got stuck in the moment of anger and frustration and his behavior consistently every week, or Yeah, I could have decided to do the same, same thing that we read in the Scriptures. Jesus did. He saw them based upon why He came. He saw me based upon why he came. It's funny because our I used to get spankings until I was like, You know what? I'm too grown for this. I'm 12. I'm not getting in trouble no more, but I saw more, and we have to decide, it's a choice. You can be angry and always go after the behavior, or you can go after what Jesus wants you to go after because he saw it in you, because you haven't always been good, but you gotta be willing to show that same grace. And mercy to kids. And I did. And guess what's interesting? About a month ago, I go to a drive through to get food, and guess who takes my order? The same young man, Laurie, you know, he's, uh, I think he's at a call out of high school. 18, just graduated last year. But when he takes my order, and I didn't know it until I get to the window and he asked me for my money, and he says, No way. And I'm like, he says, It's Angie. And he leaves out. He tells the people, you gotta give me a second, leaves out, come to my car and just hugs me because he was like, you don't know what you did for me. You don't know Yeah, for my five siblings. Can't miss it. We can't miss opportunity. We gotta see more than what we see in front of his writing.

Laurie Graham: 21:34

I love that you just shared that story and that he said you didn't know, you didn't know what you did, because so many times like what we do, we don't know our impact. We don't see it. We also don't see our negative impact when we're pushing someone away, or like kids can tell when you don't like them. I mean, they're not they're not stupid. They're actually very intuitive. Kids totally could tell when you don't like them. And I think that whole thing, like Jesus, help me see what that potential is. Help me love them like you would love them, you know. Help me go beyond what everyone else sees. Because I really do believe that's like the crux of the people who are being a light for Jesus in the world, we see what other people don't see. And I'm not saying we're flawless at it for sure. I'm sure maybe you mess up now and then, Angela too. So no shame on anybody listening. But the thing is, is we've got that phrase in our heads, or at least many of us do, because it's been repeated over the last couple years. Now that we know better, let's do better. Yeah, so now that we hear this, how about the next person we look at, the next child, we look at the next person, the grocery store, the next family member we look at, we we see. And you have to

Angela Marks: 22:41

rehearse your language. You have rehearse your words, you know, talk about that a little bit like so sometimes you gotta stand in the mirror and you got to practice affirmations and declarations over the kids that you got. I when I train, I tell the church I'm training, I say, I need to get one notebook, and in that notebook, on each page, I want you to write the kids in this ministry. Now, of course, majority of the churches I go to, 90% of them are small churches. So hey, you got enough room in that notebook to leave pages in between. But what I want you to do is I need you to write down what you hear God saying about the that particular child in their section, so you know what to pray for, what you see, I need you to write that down, what you know about the family and what you hear in the conversations with this kid and other kids. Write it down, because this is going to be your prayer and praise report book. And that's what I do. I tell it because when you look back, you gotta see how far God has brought them and how far God has brought you. Because, yeah, first start writing. You're gonna write down all of the things, and just because I want, I want leaders to be honest and transparent about what they see, but then open enough to receive what God is trying to show them about the kid.

Laurie Graham: 24:14

So let me just ask, because I haven't heard you teach on this or talk about this before. So you're saying, when you were saying, write down all the things. You see, I was thinking like it's making us look to the positive and we're supposed to, but you're saying everything. You're saying write down if you say they misbehave, if you say they're an angry child, if you say so, you're not even talking like flipping it to the affirmations you're saying. Write down what they Yep, so what? Tell me a story how you've seen this work, or how this has worked in your life or somebody else's, because you always have stories. I love your

Angela Marks: 24:43

testimony. I do. And so I do these with the most challenging kids. But I, at the time, I didn't have a notebook. I did index cards. Okay? Also, um, so, and maybe I do need to talk, teach on this and do it, talk on this. But I went to the Dollar Tree and I bought those, you know, those plastic little photo albums The pocket size. So what I did, um, this one particular church I was working with which they brought me in because they didn't have a lot of kids. So I was it. I went and printed out a photo. I took a photo of each child on my phone, hooked it up at the kiosk at Walgreens, and printed out a photo of each child, only six kids. I put their picture in the photo album, between index cards. Arts. And so that's what I used to do. I was in a location that was very rural. Many of these kids were educate like they had learning disabilities, right? And so it was like, Oh, you're not going to be able to teach them what you normally teach. Because I like to prove people wrong when it comes to that. And so I wrote down the things other people told me on those cards. I wrote down what I began to see, but then I did not, I did not start writing down what I wanted them to become yet, because sometimes you just need to sit and observe and build relationships where you are, because some things you notice is not the kids, it's the adults. That has allowed words to form atmospheres and environments. Yeah, yeah. And when you have adults sometimes that number one, I've been serving in this ministry for 20 years. It's about time somebody else does it, but I'm still here because nobody is here to do it. Yeah, that forms an environment and an atmosphere, and so kids can automatically feel like, Oh, she don't like us. Anyway, she don't. And so I just needed to sit in the moment to be able to get from the kids, where they were, how they felt, what they were thinking. Kids are open. We don't, she don't like us, and we don't like, you know, kids being kids, yeah. But it was a real moment. And so I'm writing all of that down, and then the more and more I'm spending time with them, and I'm teaching them, then now I can begin to write down what God shows me, but also what I declare over them. And that little country church out in in in the rural area, I've seen two of the kids now serving in ministry, and the other ones, they've gone off to college and whatever, but each of my years ago. But those are the kind of things I do. I I'm a journaler, so I like to write and then go back and see what God is, yeah, so I call it faith journaling. That's probably a whole nother topic.

Laurie Graham: 27:52

Yeah, you know, I just love when, whenever you talk Angela, no matter what topic I've ever heard you speak on, it's always just so person centered. It's about the person. It's never program centered. Even when you talk about programs, it's you always have this eye for for the person, like you're looking somebody right in the eye. And I just feel like, what a transformation that would be for any church that's listening right now to this podcast. Anybody who ends up at the conference, you know, at the end of the month, anybody who who follows, you know, small church ministry in any way, if we just made that one shift. It is, it is a life changer. I was gonna say game changer. Then I was gonna say ministry change. I'm like, No way. Change. I'm like, No, it's a life changer. And it's not just their life, it's also our life, like when, when I made that shift. And again, I'm not saying we're always there. I, you know, sometimes I I get off as well and, you know, but, but when I make that shift, I experienced Jesus differently, like I think that is probably the most profound thing, and I don't think we can say it enough, but when we experience it, we experience God in a new way. Children experience us, and adults experience us in a different way, when we're actually connecting with people, instead of worrying so much about programs and numbers and budgets and and even the outcome, right? Like, like, that's hard to let go the outcome, like, I can do this, and whatever the outcome is, is, is totally up to God and and that person, like, people have free choice, right? I can do what I can do, and then let go of that outcome. That's a lesson.

Angela Marks: 29:32

Can you imagine you put on the event people committed to come and you only have one child, right? So do we walk around with those frustrations? I was reading a Facebook group, kids ministry Facebook group, and somebody wrote about that. She put all this work into this, right? People said they were going to come, and the number was so low that she was discouraged. But those that did come, she lost her focus. Instead of focusing on who was there, she focused on the numbers that weren't. And it's like, um, we have to make sure that we don't lose sight of what is important. I heard a pastor say this. He said, We got to make sure that we don't let what matter more matter most. That knocked me off my feet a lot of times, things do matter. Matter, but they never shouldn't matter most, right? Saying that we want kids to come, we make it so that families show up, yeah, that should not matter the most, the

Laurie Graham: 30:46

most I love that, yeah, yeah. Things matter because sometimes people will talk to me about numbers, they numbers do matter. I'm like, I I've never said numbers don't matter. I do believe numbers matter, but I love how you just said that. We'll have to figure out who said that someday, I always look up who said what? You know when I start quoting people, right? Dan Moeller, okay, Pastor. Dan Moeller, like what matters most. I love it. Angela. Angela, this is such a, just, such a blessing to be with you today, I will take a conversation with you any day of the week, and I think part of it is because I feel like I matter to you when you talk to me. But you know what I mean? Like, there's people like that, that it's like I talk to you any day of the week. So thank you for taking the time to be with us. Do you have any last things you want to say as parting words to people listening who may be serving in kids ministry, or they may be frustrated in kids ministry, or they may just be in a small church thinking, I wish we had kids coming. What would you say to them today?

Angela Marks: 31:47

Link, I use you. I leave, I'll leave these words that my former pastor, who has since retired, told me in the beginning of my starting children's ministry. Angela as a leader, I want you to get three things, a tame tongue, a tender heart, and Tufts. Gift ministry. And he served. He served in ministry 40 years. The ministry will take you on highs and lows. There will be moments that you're so excited about something that just happened great, and there'll be moments where you're disappointed because your expectation wasn't met, he said, but you have to be more focused on what God is focused on, receive how you feel. Receive your emotion. It's real. You're disappointed. You put work in. You wonder why they don't behave. What is wrong with these families to allow kids to play soccer on a Sunday? Like, be cool with yourself, right? Because I have those moments too. I put on events, and I've prayed over children that decided to walk away. I mean, we go through those things, those things are real, but always try to refocus yourself. I'll leave with this. I was reading in the Bible where Apostle Paul had wrote in second, second Corinthians, I think it's chapter 14 or four, one of the two. And he, in verse 13, says that his spirit was almost aggrieved or saddened, because he had been looking for Titus, right? And he hadn't found Titus. He came to look for him, but he had to leave to go to Macedonia. And verse 13 says that, He says that his spirit was bothered. But then verse 14 says, This is what Paul does. He's talking about being troubled in verse 13 because he had been looking for someone that he had mentored and couldn't find him and has to leave. Then Laurie turns around immediately in the next verse and says, Now thanks be unto God that causes me to triumph. Um, wait a minute. You were just sadden in one moment, and then you turn your focus and says, Now, thanks be unto God who called me to triumph. My lasting words, you're gonna feel disappointed, you're gonna feel sad, but you don't stay there. Now. Thanks be unto God that causes you to triumph when it's one kid that causes you to triumph over anything in ministry, especially in kids ministry, because we tend to stay in the trenches. But yeah, let your next move be. But God, I thank

Laurie Graham: 35:05

you. Yeah, yeah, even if you're getting a chair thrown at you and you see that child and say, God wants to do something.

Angela Marks: 35:12

God, I thank you, because you could have used anybody to minister to this kid, but you thought about

Laurie Graham: 35:19

me. That's amazing, Angela. I just, I just think that's amazing, and I love it. And if y'all aren't inspired enough yet, or if you want a little more inspiration, come listen to Angela. She's joining us at the Kidman. Conference at the end of the month, so you can find out more and hear about all the other speakers. We have an amazing lineup. We always do, but it's, it's just such it's always different every year. Do you feel that too? Angela, like there's always, like a different, just something different that's going on. And there is with this one, too. So check out the whole lineup at small church summits.com. And you'll see all the speakers, all the titles, all the topics. You'll be able to get a free ticket and please share this conference again. This happens every year. I didn't know I wish somebody had told me. I didn't know about it. This we are the only people who really talk, you know, straight into small church ministry, specifically small churches. So this upcoming conference is Kidman and youth ministry for small churches. Grab a ticket. Angela, thank you for being with us today, and for all of you listening, be a light until we talk next week. You