164: Finding Your Place: Embracing Unique Gifts & Talents In Ministry | with DG Wynn

In this episode, Laurie Graham and DG Wynn discuss finding your place of influence and using your unique gifts and passions in ministry. 

They explore ...

• The limitations of spiritual gifts inventories
• Share examples of people making an impact through unexpected talents
• Emphasize the importance of embracing small beginnings

This episode encourages listeners to be open to using their gifts, no matter how unusual, and to create space for others to do the same in their churches.

Connect with DG Wynn:
www.chasmgaming.com

Join our free Facebook Community: www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministry


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Transcript

Laurie Acker: 0:01

Hey, this is Laurie Acker, welcome to the small church ministry podcast. Hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of the small church ministry podcast. This episode is a little bit different. A lot of times, we're doing boots on the ground practical things for children's ministries, or working with people who may have disabilities, or looking at how to teach a Sunday school class. And today, we're kind of taking a little broader step, but super practical that hits every single one of us about helping people find their gifts their place of influence. You know, I close every podcast with be a light and also ourselves. Like, how do we find that place that lights us up as we're serving as well as meets needs in our church or our community? That whole thing of figuring out is God calling me to this or not? So I have a special guest on the podcast. DG, win is joining us. DG, do you want to just give a brief introduction? I,

DG Wynn: 1:09

I am from a small church, from a small town, and a very small church. There were basically three churches in my town, and you went to one of them, and my parents led the the youth group and so many of my experiences, including my testimony, come out of that small church environment. In fact, here's my this is what I'll share about me. Okay, so I was the youth group kind of Queen, where I knew all the answers that didn't mean I was actually following Jesus. I was following what my parents and adults told me I go to college. Realize the difference there between the daylight, between my real life inside and the one that I showed people. Oh, I came home to and I swear I say this with utmost love my tiny church where the pastor's wife was the worship leader, and she was tone deaf, and we all knew this. Nobody said anything, but I had gone to a college with an epic music program, and so the worship at college was amazing. Yeah, and I come back, and I'm sitting in my tiny, tiny church. There's probably 75 people, my tone deaf pastor's wife who's leading worship, and she starts singing the song, I surrender all, All to Jesus. I surrender all to him. I freely give. And I broke the Holy Spirit in that moment made me realize that's the one thing I had never done. I never tried to let him, surrendering it all to him, and actually letting him be God. So I was one of those kids who, yeah, I knew Jesus acknowledged him as Savior, but he didn't become Lord until that day. So I want to encourage anyone, even if you have a tone deaf like worship pastor or, you know, whatever, she was offering up her gifts, yeah,

Laurie Acker: 3:17

yeah, as

DG Wynn: 3:20

the kid who gives his lunch to Jesus to feed the 5000s it may be a paltry lunch on comparatively, and yet, look what the Lord can do with it. Wow, that's

Laurie Acker: 3:33

so cool. And everybody who's listening right now, I had no idea that story is going to be shared, and it's kind of interesting with what we're going to talk about, because we're talking about using our gifts, not are not gifts, right, in really cool ways, to to be an influence and be a light. And one of the things I've just so DG and I just met, like, a week ago, and we've had a couple conversations, you know, over zoom and so, but I'm so like, your heart is so similar to my heart in so many ways, but we started talking about this topic, which is why we wanted to have this conversation in front of you all, with you all listening, because I get really frustrated with inventories and spiritual gifts, inventories and people like not using what they love and who they are because they put themselves in A box, or they think what they love isn't useful, or it's not doesn't fit the church box. And I think the little, small church box we have, like, if you think about like, where you could serve, you can do the coffee. You can be on the worship team. You can be a teacher. You can be the helps person that no one ever sees that cleans the kitchen. You can help with the landscaping you can be a deacon and DG, and I are going to talk about how to blow this all out of the water and say you actually can be so much more than that, and sometimes your quirkiest, weirdest inborn loves is really out of where your service could be. So DG. Right before we came live, you said, yeah, there's like, different aspects of figuring this out, right? And one really is doing a spiritual gifts inventory. So can you talk a little bit about your experience with that, like when it's felt useful, you know, in in your ministry life, or personal life, and maybe where it has felt like limitations? And after that, we'll talk about personality. We'll talk about, like hobbies and loves and passions, but let's just start with that

DG Wynn: 5:25

one Absolutely. So one of the things I've been thinking about a lot is just, Okay, here's an example of the thought. I was a missionary on the field, and one of my missionary colleagues, he came on the field the exact same time, and he used to work for Firestone Tire as an engineer. He designed tires, and every summer

Laurie Acker: 5:48

you know a tire designer, I don't think that would pop up on your inventory, no,

DG Wynn: 5:53

and like, What a funny path to the mission field because, but this is how his brain worked. He's calculated men in my family live for roughly 72 years, no joke. And he goes, so if we're supposed to tithe to the Lord, then maybe I should also tithe my life. So he committed to serving for 7.2 years on the mission field. That is how he arrived at that thing. And I, every single day that we were there, I'd say, hey, Steven, how you doing? And he he would respond seven or four or and he was responding on a light group scale of like where he was at and which totally made me chuckle. And I basically realized, oh, man, we all come at things from different directions. And when it comes to these personality tests, these spiritual gifts assessments, those kinds of things that people use in church, there's two different personalities. There's one that goes, Yeah, tell me. Let me take this test to help unlock me to understand what I might be that is not and maybe they're less self reflective and they need a tool, or maybe they just don't have an accurate picture of themselves, yeah, because there are lots of lies the enemy has woven into our lives that create filters and we can't see ourselves both how God sees us and how other people see us. Yeah. So those tests can unlock being like, wait a minute, I do actually like to do this thing that that's gift, that's a gift I can give to people. And not just that I can give to people, but that God gave me to give others, yeah, and, and the reality is that is God's Mo. He blesses one so that one can bless many. So. But the other side of the coin is people who are like, I'm not taking a test. That test not going to tell me who I am, right? And they may. And so they they chafe at things like that, because they have maybe been boxed in by some of those tests. So instead of unlocking things, it feels like shackles for them, yeah, yeah, but it's still, well now one of the things that there's a virtue to still both personalities is it can create an environment where you have language, yes, language to use that's not just common, but I mean, how many times have you experienced where or this happens to me all the time, where I'm feeling a thing, I think a thing, I feel like I even know a thing, but I don't know what that thing is called. And all of a sudden, someone uses a word and then tells me what that word means. And I'm like, oh, that's the I know. Yes, I

Laurie Acker: 8:53

get it. So I just want to go back to when you said, you know, there's certain kind of people who like to take these inventories to unlock, to unlock what could be and I kind of want to push back a little bit on that. I don't think most people do inventories to get unlocked. I think most people do inventories to get locked. Like they want to look at what box I fit in, where do I fit? What box do I fit in? And the reality is, is, if we utilize inventories to unlock, we don't get frustrated when we don't fit in a box, like, how many times do we take an inventory and we're like, yeah, so that's not really accurate, or that's not really me, or that's not all of me, right? Where, if we looked at inventories to say, how could this unlock me? Which, which comes, which also brings into mind those inventories or surveys of, where do you want to serve in the church, or where does your passion lie? Because where we start those, and this is where, I think it's short sighted, limited. Where we start those is we look in our church at all the jobs that need to be done, and we put them on a list, and we have people go through and check them off. So limiting, because you have people who. Have passions and loves for all kinds of things that aren't on that list. And instead of trying to unlock what God's given them, how he literally has created them to be a light, we say, well, this is what we have for you to do. Do you fit our little box? And a lot of people say, No, I don't. Yeah.

DG Wynn: 10:20

And here's some, here's the the challenge with that. We'll call it the list maker. Not that that's not, they're not trying to use their gifts, but that list is limited to their imagination. Yes, their the cultural expectation. It is not limited to or it. It doesn't even kind of cover the imagination the Lord has in what he's given to different individuals as passions and even purpose. Yeah. So, so I look at those tests as a way to unlock because the more you know who you are in relationship to God that tells you what you can not just what you can do, but it begins the conversation of all the ways he may use you. Yes,

Laurie Acker: 11:16

and so there's people listening right now, who, who are shutting us off right now? You know, because they're, you know, what they're doing, they're saying, Wait, all this stuff has to happen on a Sunday. We can't do the extra stuff if we don't have people who are running the slides, doing the sound, having the nursery, doing the cookies, running this event, you know, doing the decorations, putting the lights on, you know, preaching the Word, singing the songs. We need the band. We need this. We need this. And I just want to say, because I often say this, what do you call a church without music? A church? What do you call a church without a nursery? Oh, a church. And so what if your church isn't supposed to do live streaming, but your church is going to be like feeding the homeless down in the I was gonna say the wash. That's what we call it in Arizona, though, the washes where there's water running once a year it's gone, but, but like, what if your church is supposed to be different? What if you're supposed to be different? Yes, Jesus model this modern church. You and I are so excited. We're gonna interrupt each other. Go ahead. So you go, no,

DG Wynn: 12:20

no, I'm so with you. And when you're like, well, but what about all the things that need to be done? My immediate thought is, oh, I'm not sure you want me to talk about modern church. Because my immediate thought is, you ask the Lord if you are supposed to be doing all of those things. Because if you are, then he will provide, and if he didn't provide, nobody

Laurie Acker: 12:44

listen to my podcast, because that's what I say. No,

DG Wynn: 12:48

yeah, because honestly, all of this gonna call it ritual, not to being a Christian, but to the Christian subculture of this is what it looks like. Yeah, doesn't matter. Doesn't matter at all. It is nice, it is comfortable, it is familiar. But if there are no slides to sing the songs, then I think that the worship pastor can step up and learn how to lead the worship without

Laurie Acker: 13:24

them, or if there's no worship, Pastor, worship can happen with with silence. Worship can happen acapella can happen with art. Worship can happen with a doodle pad. Like worship does also need music. So okay, so before we're gonna tell you right on time. DG, like you and I, we're gonna be like this, like 18 podcast roll didn't watch, so let's keep moving. So what have you seen? And I'll share a few stories too, where somebody's unique, creative makeup, where they were able to tap into what they had and what they loved and did ministry with it, maybe within the local church, if we've got examples, but maybe just in life, because I'll just give one. Rebecca Royce from our community in she's a part of our Facebook community. She spoke at one of our conferences. She sews, and she's an older woman, and she taught somebody had a sew. She did a week camp and had, I think it was like five, five students, young students, show up the next week. It was like, the next year, it was like 17 and, like, it's this passion where, yeah, it really wasn't on the list of the church. Hey, this is where we need service. We need somebody to sew. You know, we need some but it turned into this beautiful mentoring. Like, literally, she is making a difference in the lives of students who never would have been touched before. She wasn't leading a youth group, she wasn't teaching a Sunday school, but these relationships were amazing. Do you have a fun example of somebody who did something kind of quirky or weird or different, or where they used it? Yeah.

DG Wynn: 15:00

Um, there's so many, okay, I actually want to go back to, so this is a, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you an example of an unusual gift. Okay, great, because I was not making fun of my tone deaf worship pastor's wife, or, like, you know, yeah, because the funny thing is, you know,

Laurie Acker: 15:22

you might hear this podcast, right? 100% okay, great.

DG Wynn: 15:25

You know, I love you, but she you joked around about it being a non gift. Actually, the gift she showed me was faithfulness, like she was serving even outside of her comfort zone in order to try to bless others. And, and there are those kinds of so that's not exactly the gift you're talking about. But even down to we have a what do they call it, thumbs and thimbles group who does the sewing in our church and, and honestly, with the number of divorces and younger kids not learning these things, it winds up blessing people so much when all of a sudden they're like, I don't know how to sew on my button. I don't know how to hem a pant leg, but an unusual one I got to participate in. So one of the Denver where I'm from, actually is in the top 10 loneliest cities in the United States. And everybody moves here because they're like, yes, the mountains, it's so much fun. But then they start to have kids, and they're like, Oh, I really need my family. And so they move away. So that's a very transient environment, actually, and that makes people lonely. And so I love board games, and I and a friend started a board gaming group at our church, and it was stunning to me, the people that came out of the woodworks, professional women, high falutin men and divorced people and single older ladies and children, and it was all of a sudden, what I realized is, yeah, they like to play games and different types of games, but what they were craving was community. So it took, you know, the gift of, like, hospitality and a little bit of admin and whatever, but all of a sudden, this, you know, kind of nerd culture thing created a lasting community. Now for several years, drawing other people, because it became a thing where we could easily invite non believers into so super, not threatening. But anyway, so that was a an example of that was really unusual. But seeing the gifts of my friend come out in this group, it was just amazing.

Laurie Acker: 18:01

Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. You know? I think sometimes we just get into this narrow little box of what everything needs to look like. And this is one of the reasons I love small churches, is because you have a lot more freedom in small churches if, if we, if we allow, I don't know if we allow the freedom in small churches, there's so much more freedom than in a big church. I was in a big church, a really big church, for a while, they had rules about how you could hang things on the walls, right? Like you had to use a certain kind of sticky tap. You couldn't do this. You couldn't paint anything without approval from some committees. And some small churches run like that too. But I also want to say I spoke at a church not too long ago up in Phoenix, and it is an older building, and you walk in and it feels kind of cold, and I went to the restroom, I felt like I came home in the restroom. I'm like, somebody had painted this beautiful color, and there was this, there was this word art hung, and it was so like, this sounds really weird, but I could have totally hung out in the restaurant, like, I was like, and, you know, and you know, who did that? Just somebody in the church did that. They wanted to make, you know, and I'm going to tell you like that, it made a difference to me. It made a difference to how I felt. And in a large church, there's going to be committees and decorators and all kinds of stuff. And in a small church you have, you have freedom if, if you're if you're in a culture, and sometimes we can help create an influence. But you can offer to do things sometimes that in a large church, they would just look at you, like, what? No, of course not. We're not going to do that. Like, no, you can't do that. I would have to go through, you know. So I think there's some beautiful things like that that can happen within the context of the local church, that, because we're in small churches, like, how do we not the things that we love first? I'm gonna ask you this because you've done this in your life, yes, how do we take these things we love, and first off, count them important and, like, embrace them, versus going, Oh, that's not kingdom like, I like plants. That's not really about people or I, you know, how do we just. Do we embrace that?

DG Wynn: 20:02

I think I'm loving your plants example. That's so funny. But I will say this, the I came from a church where their kind of motto was the church unleashed. So when I'm talking about unlocking or unleashing like it is literally Okay. Who are you before God? Who did he make you? And I really resonate with Esther so like from made for such a time as this God put you in a place, in a time with certain gifts. So, so, and it is not because we are awesome. It is because he is awesome, yes, but the reality is, what does he need you? What kind of you? Ness does he need in this moment, in this time among these people?

Laurie Acker: 20:55

Okay, I love that you just brought up Esther. And quite honestly, I think we should wake up like that every day. I think we should wake up and go for such a time as this. God, what's up with me today? And we don't? We wake up with these to do lists, and you know, you know, down on ourselves, or hard on ourselves, or feeling we're not getting anything done. But what if we literally embraced, and I don't think this is that far off. I don't think this was just for Esther. What if we embrace when we went to the grocery store, when we went to work, when we went to we went to church for such a time as this God, what do you have for me right now? How am I going to be a light? How am I going to make a difference right now?

DG Wynn: 21:31

Well, and you mentioned the idea of, oh, well, I'm not sure this is kingdom. Well, here's what I love. A friend of mine named Curtis Sargent has this concept of seeing where the kingdom is not, you can see that functionally anywhere. And the point is to bring kingdom to it so And, ooh, yes, bringing kingdom to it is okay. These are my gifts. I like. These are my gifts. And I am a reflection. I am an image bearer of the King of kings. So what is it? What is it? Where am I seeing? There is not that. So even something as simple as a cold church being warmed up with beauty from that warm personality who has artistic gifts and or just time and tenacity. Oh, my word. How she used her gifts to bless and change the nature of that environment in that church. How much more welcoming might that have been then for every single person who comes in, or at least the women and so you can, here's what I found, the plants thing funny. Uh, our last pastor, when he was weighing whether or not to come to our church to be our pastor, he had a prophetic dream about plants. He for some reason, he had never seen our church or anything, and he had a dream about a church filled with plants. Turns out, when he came for his visit, there were over 80 fake plants in the church, yes, so, like, there was just a host of them. And he roared with laughter. And he goes, Okay, God, I get it. I'm home anyway. So, yeah, obviously, real plants are beautiful, but it just, I was like, Oh, well, that was a sign. And you never know what the Lord is going to use for, for people to connect

Laurie Acker: 24:09

with. Yeah, I think when we think about being a light and finding our niche, if there is one, or, you know, embracing the day, why God put us on this planet, why God put us in this small church? Two of the words that you've used, and I've used throughout this podcast, is unleashed and unlocked. I think we got to quit putting ourselves in little boxes. And I think we also need to understand the impact of a look, a phrase, a thing of kindness and approach. You know, I I've been in a newer church for the last couple years. Meaning, you know, my last church, I was there for 10 years, and the one before that was really long. And so I've been in a church for just a couple years, but it's a traditional I go to the traditional service, and it was, I think it was Reformation Day, when they all wear red. And I was in the choir, you know, and I walk in and I have green on. I had no idea people wore red, like the sanctuary had little things up, and the whole choir had red on. And I was very new in the church, like I was just a few months in, and I was just mortified, and I went and sat down and I said, I didn't know. You know, it's like that look like I didn't know. I didn't know. And the woman next to me had a red shirt on and a red jacket, and she. Said, wear my jacket. Paulette, this is you. She took her jacket off and gave me her red jacket to put on over, you know, whatever I had on, and I cannot tell you the impact that had on me, feeling welcome, feeling loved and belonging in a place where I didn't know that I felt like I belonged, like it was, it's those acts of kindness like I had a conversation with with Kim bottle the other day, and we were talking about every child having their place, including children who've had trauma or disabilities and things like that. And we talked about what an impact it would make in a church foyer just to walk in and see a pair of noise canceling headphones available for use, right for somebody who has noise sensitivity and something like that. Like, if you're listening and you're like, you have a heart for for somebody who has noise sensitivity or has autism or whatever. Like, could you just ask the pastor? Hey, do you mind if we keep I'll even pay for them. I'll just get a pair of head had, you know, noise canceling headphones, and let's just keep it in the foyer, and maybe nobody will ever use it, but maybe somebody's gonna walk in who left their nephew at home, who has a sister who's never belongs, and they see this, like, for such a time as this, like, let's quit minimizing the ideas that pop in your mind. Let's follow through.

DG Wynn: 26:58

Yes, they don't just pop into your mind that is listening to the Holy Spirit, yeah, and that's where, all of a sudden, you are not going off of the finite lists of expectations that various people make and that that we all think are concrete, they're not. I that same friend Curtis, he talks about the idea of only doing what the Lord has asked you to do. Do you know how hard that is to because so many people have expectations of you, but you're only required to do what the Lord asks you to do. Yeah, and, and for all the people who are like no, but the dishes have to be done, and potluck has to be there, and the donuts and the cookies need to be gluten free, and all of those things,

Laurie Acker: 27:51

those, okay, don't get me started because I'm big on having gluten free options. So just don't get me started on that thoughtful,

DG Wynn: 27:58

faithful things. Yeah, I want, I want those people to just because in their heart they're like, Ah, I want to be faithful. But also, there is a vice to that virtue that is, the world will fall apart without me. Um, I would actually encourage everybody who has even the flicker of that thought to fast periodically from their faithfulness.

Laurie Acker: 28:28

Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's actually really good advice, and I've talked about it in different ways, but you know, and again, let's go back to the words unlocked and unleashed, like unleashed unlocked. That's a very free feeling. It's not restrictive, it's not demanding, it's it's an unlocked and unleashed kind of a feeling. And let's also just say this, because for people listening who have, like, an idea for you know, whatever their thought is, when you have these ministry ideas, they're usually a little thing, and we make it so big in our head, we don't do it. Because instead of thinking, oh, there's a single mom that I know that needs help, we think, oh, we need to create a single mom's ministry. I need to get the master on board. I need to have a team. Well, you know where a single mom's ministry comes out of? It comes out of one it comes out of a step. And I think if we start taking the little steps that one thing, like being kind to your neighbor, instead of thinking we have to start a neighborhood program that our church is going to do outreach, because it might turn into that. But there's such a time of this that such a time as this. It's it's a step. It's one step that leads to another step that leads to another step.

DG Wynn: 29:39

Yes, what's that verse in Isaiah that talks about like, do not despise small beginnings? Yes, it's so important because here's the other thing that is one way by you. The Lord gives you the gift of an idea. You pray about it, make sure that was from him, then take a little step of obedience in that direction. And even if you're a planner, I'm a planner. I love to plan out the big it will be the moms mops ministry. But if you don't ever take that first step, you have not been obedient, or you've not stewarded that gift he gave you. So how? Yeah, if you think about the talents, the parable of the talents, that's you sitting on that one, that one talent. And because that the guy who only got one did nothing with it, and then it was taken away from him and given to someone else who went ahead and risked in order to see if they could grow what they were given, I want

Laurie Acker: 30:47

to throw one thing into what you said, because you said, you know you have an idea, pray about it to make sure it's from the Lord first. So I actually push back against that sometimes, because I think when we pray about things, oftentimes it's procrastination and fear. And I would say, if you have an idea and it's loving and it's kind, and it fits within your capacity, right? It's not gonna hurt you. Because I think sometimes we hurt ourselves, you know, doing that, we pray while we're doing we take the step and pray while you're doing it. Because I think we stop ourselves from serving because we're not sure if God told us to give that kid the pair of tennis shoes. Oh, Lord, if you can give the kid a pair of tennis shoes, you do not need a word from the Lord to tell you to give the kid a pair of tennis shoes. And I, I think sometimes we we because it helps us sit in fear we get stuck. Because how do I know it was the Lord? I put a fleece out 15 times and it could still be wrong, and I haven't really had a confirmation, like, if it's loving, if it's kind, if it's Grace filled, yeah, if there's humility and and just kindness within it, just just do it, if it's not gonna completely.

DG Wynn: 31:53

Yeah. Here's what's really funny, though. And I think the reason why I have to test it is I'm a person full of ideas, yes, yeah. And I'm a person who can over commit myself, yes.

Laurie Acker: 32:06

That's why I said, if it doesn't hurt you, if it's not gonna throw you, yeah,

DG Wynn: 32:11

yeah. And so just I want to, I want to be faithful, so I only ever, I'm not testing whether or not the idea is a good idea, because on some level, I if he gave me that idea and it stuck out to me, then I'm already knowing it's from him. But is it now? Is it, you know? Anyway, so that's agreed, agreed, yeah. And I the we need to listen to the Holy Spirit and just act on those ones that are so obviously,

Laurie Acker: 32:39

yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally agree with everything you're saying. I see so much of the opposite when people are just, yeah, praying about this amazing thing they could have done three years ago, and they're just stuck in fear. And so, yeah, let's, let's. But I really believe we need to steward ourselves well and our gifts. So because you and I think have kind of some similar brain things, you know, like, yeah, I've got like 18 ideas just from this podcast alone, and we've only been talking for 33 minutes, well, minus that minute when my dog was barking, that got edited out before now, but you know, hey, DJ, it is such a pleasure to be with you today. Thank you for taking the time to be on the podcast. Before we go, I want you to share how your quirky, unusual love of something turned into a ministry.

DG Wynn: 33:30

So in my quirky, nerd life of board games, I have been in book publishing for years and years over a dozen and I last year, launched a Christian, not just Christian, a kingdom themed board game company and or board and card game company called chasm. Chasm gaming and our very first product we launched right before Christmas. It's called the Black mission legends deck of playing cards. So you know, you can play all the normal spades, hearts, whatever cards, but on them are over 52 stories of Black and African American missionaries from the last three centuries. So imagine using them as an icebreaker. When somebody comes over and you have them and you're just playing hearts, but all of a sudden they're like, Wait a minute. Who are these people? You it can be an icebreaker to a kingdom conversation immediately then. So be looking for other board games we're having come out that spur discipleship and mission minded thinking in the next year. I

Laurie Acker: 34:41

just love it. Let, how does this even happen? Right? Like, plus you and I met, you know, as As luck would have it, or as divine appointment would have it during Black History Month, like, I was looking at that game, and I'm like, that is so incredibly cool. And I think when we start looking at again, just expanding the tools we're using, the strategies we're using, the things that are amazing, icebreakers that aren't the same ones, you know, you and I have done since I was in junior high, you know, in the church, like, I love it so much. DG, how do people find this or get a hold of you? We'll make sure to put the link in the show notes as well.

DG Wynn: 35:20

Thank you. Yes, go to chasm gaming.com Okay, and right now you if you buy some, if you buy them, right now, they're on sale on the site, because we want. To inspire, educate and honestly entertain people with concepts from the Great Commission. So look at the stories in this deck of cards, and think about all the ways these people engaged in Kingdom in with their unique gifts and despite all obstacles, because there's a number of them that were from the slave era and were enslaved. And so despite all of that, some of them started publishing companies. Some of them were politicians, some of them, I mean, and all of them serving emissions. So yeah, it's cool. A Game changer.

Laurie Acker: 36:15

And again, this is an example of you Just loving something that never would have appeared on a church inventory thing, and choosing to make it Kingdom minded like I love it, and I can't wait to see what God does with this, and I'm so it's such a pleasure to meet you. I'm sure. I'm positive we'll have you speaking at a conference soon, and being all involved in lots of stuff, because I just love the heart that we both share. So before we go, any last word for our listeners out there. Some are on a treadmill. Some are driving to work. Some are supposed to be working, but they're listening to us instead. Some are in small churches, and they're terrified their church is dying as it declines. Some of them are flying high in women's ministry or whatever. But what's the last word of encouragement for them?

DG Wynn: 37:07

I would really encourage to all my small church peeps to really go to the Lord open handedly, not just with the ministry as you know it, but the ministry that needs to come in the future, and who can participate in that. And don't, maybe even try not coming up with the answer yourself, but letting people offer themselves, create the conversation, and let just see what people offer up saying. You know, I've always thought this could be something I could do. So maybe, maybe try not making the list, but generating the list from that which people are wanting to offer and give them the space to do that. Yeah,

Laurie Acker: 37:57

yeah. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for being with us. This was just a great fun and I can't wait, I can't wait to talk with you again sometime. So hey everybody, wherever you're listening from, we will talk again next Week. So between now and then, be a light you