158: Beyond Events: The Incredible Impact Of Organic Relationships In Women's Ministry | with Charmaine Stulp

While some women crave a vibrant “women’s ministry,” other women aren’t excited by the idea. With the myriad of differences in upbringing, past experiences, personalities, and interests, no women’s ministry will be a perfect fit for all.

The good news is that the most incredible impact we can have in the lives of others is in building authentic relationships. While not every woman appreciates a tea party, each one craves to be seen, understood, accepted and loved.

In this episode, ministry leader Charmaine Stulp shares how she never truly felt like she fit in a typical “Women’s Ministry” - and yet - her heart for the women inside and outside her church walls draws her into ministry on a personal level. 

Whether you’re a lover of a great craft night or you’d rather be out throwing axes, this episode is for you!


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Transcript

Laurie Acker: 0:01

Hey, this is Laurie Acker, welcome to the small church ministry podcast. Hey, hey, welcome to another episode of the small church ministry podcast. It is January 2025, if you're listening live, which is a special month for us at small church ministry, because this is the month when we focus on women's ministry at the end of each January so far. Gosh, Charmaine, is this like our fourth or fifth? I don't even know anymore, but we have a crazy women's ministry and small churches conference coming up at the end of the month. So this whole month, you're going to hear a focus on women's ministry. I have some really special guests coming on live each week to talk to us about their scope, their take, their perspective on women's ministry, sharing from experience and wisdom and all sorts of stuff. So today on the show, we have Charmaine stealth coming in from Canada. So if you hear any weird accents or anything, you know, just know ahead of time. She's like, way up in the frozen tundra. And it just sometimes you can't speak the way that we do down here in the south. Right? Charmaine, do you want to, like, introduce yourself a little bit and, you know, just let somebody know, like, I don't know just something about us, because we've gotten to know each other over the past couple years, both a little quirky, a little funny, and also, honestly, I'm just gonna say it, I think we're both really deep in different ways, and that's why I'm really excited to have this conversation with you, But you but you want to introduce yourself real quick and maybe a little bit how we

Charmaine Stulp: 1:46

met. Yeah, I would love to. It's an honor to be on your podcast. Laurie, I love small church ministry. I love what you are doing, and it is a just, truly an honor to sit here and have this conversation with you, because, yes, you have become a dear, dear friend. And I think, well, I don't want to jump into the topic just yet, because, but it'll be really easy for us. So yeah, my name is Charmaine. I live in welland, which is near Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada. And yes, Laurie makes fun of certain words that I say, like this past week, we were talking, and I told her I was making pasta for supper. And she thought that that was hilarious, that it she asked me if I was the only person in Canada to say the word past

Laurie Acker: 2:34

no pasta. You said pasta to me.

Charmaine Stulp: 2:38

I said pasta not sounds like pasta,

Laurie Acker: 2:40

pasta pasta Tomato, tomato, you know, but anyway, it took a while, Charmaine, for you actually get to get linked up with small church ministry, which was very funny because our mutual friend Reno Anderson kept telling me about this woman, Charmaine, that I had to meet. And honestly, it felt like you were just avoiding us. So when you finally found us and got LinkedIn and started speaking and everything, what was it about small church ministry that I don't know kind of connected with you in a different way, maybe that you might not have even been expecting?

Charmaine Stulp: 3:18

Oh So, yes, so grateful I had the same thing. Reno was saying, you gotta meet Laurie. I think the two of you would really get along well. And I think I just, at the time, I was overwhelmed. I just I didn't want anything else on my plate. I didn't want any more ministry. I didn't want to make new friends with anybody else, because I did not feel like I had capacity. And I think when I connected with small church ministry and so many of the wonderful women connected with it, I realized a I wasn't the only woman feeling overwhelmed in ministry, but I also wasn't the only woman screaming silently that there had to be a better way. Maybe is the way to say it, and to hear other women say, I'm struggling too, and I love small churches, and how do we do this well and in a way that's sustainable? And that, to me, just resonated so deep. There wasn't fluff, there wasn't people pretending to be, I don't know what we think we have to be like there just was an authenticity and honesty and depth, yes, depth that I just immediately loved and connected with and continued. Wow. Well,

Laurie Acker: 4:56

I love that sometimes I ask questions live and I really don't know what. The answer is going to be. And so sometimes after I ask the question, I kind of go, Oh, should I have answered that? Should I have asked that question, right? And so I love that you actually just shared because I didn't know the answer to this question. You all wherever you're listening from, that you were kind of avoiding us because I felt like you were, but it's interesting to hear you say you were kind of avoiding us because you were overwhelmed. And honestly, we've had people, you know, see our conferences coming up, and especially the one we have done in the past for like, spouses of pastors, and they're like, I can't do one more thing. You don't understand. I don't want to come to another conference because I don't want to do one more thing. I'm overwhelmed. I'm doing too much. I'm in a small church. And for those of you who are listening, who haven't been to our conferences, quite honestly, I think we will tell you to do less. Like more people come to our conferences and say, wow, like I thought I was going to feel guilty and feel like I had to put more on my calendar. And I think this is one of the things that we do that's very special and very effective and impactful is oftentimes less ministry is more impact because of the way it impacts us, because of the way everyone else in the world is feeling too like, who else needs one more thing to add to their schedule? Right now? Right?

Charmaine Stulp: 6:17

Yeah, exactly. I sorry. I'm laughing to myself, because, as you're saying this, I'm nodding like because I agree so so much. And then I'm realizing nobody could tell that I'm nodding. This is a podcast, so just hear me what I say. I echo, I agree. I say, Amen. I say, preach Laurie to all of that, because I agree, I agree completely that doing less often ends up being more. And it's one of those things you just you wrestle with in your own head, because it feels like it can't possibly be true, and if you don't do it, who's gonna right? We have that constant or they're not going to do it as good as I would, or the same way, or whatever, we have all these things that get in the way of us serving just way too much. And then we're we're grumpy and bitter and overwhelmed, and we don't actually have much to give. But when we slow down a little, I think the quality of how we serve just can can increase

Laurie Acker: 7:29

so beautifully, awesome. Well, the title of this podcast has to do with organic relationships, the impact of organic relationships. But before we jump into that Charmaine, I just want to unpack a little bit some some stereotypes of women's ministry, different types of past experiences with women's ministry, because I will sometimes say to the audience or the conference, to our Facebook community, hey, if you don't like women's ministry, and I always get such a backlash, I either get people saying, oh my gosh, I hate women's ministry. It's Catty, it's blah, blah, blah. I don't like pink. I don't want to do crafts. I don't want to, you know, but then I have other people saying, What are you talking about? I love women's ministry, and I love pink, and I love flowers, and there's different types of women's ministry. So let's just unpack this a little bit, maybe from your experience Charmaine, but also from people you know, like, what comes to mind when you think of women's ministry, maybe how you might be a little other or your experience has been a little different. Just talk a little bit about what comes to mind for you when you hear the term women's ministry.

Charmaine Stulp: 9:12

Yeah, I think the very first thing that comes to mind is probably like, Mother Daughter thing, yes, and tease mother daughter teas that mother daughter teas, those kinds of things. And I don't as much anymore, but I used to have, like, a physical reaction, not in a nice way, because I just, I'm just, we're honest here, right? I'm not sure exactly. I think, as a little girl, I wanted to be in the barn with my dad and my brothers. I didn't love being in the house with my mom, cooking, baking, cleaning, like it's funny, because I love those things now, but I think kind of that childhood stuff, I liked being, you know, with our we had horses, and I love I just adored my brothers, and I wanted to be with them. So I think some of that carried into my early adult years. And, yeah, I I wanted to just be more maybe it's because, in some ways, hanging out with guys felt a bit more casual, or a bit more raw and real and and women, some of the women, maybe that, you know, maybe I didn't sit at the right table. It just felt. I kind of had to be this specific kind of a woman. And the parts of me, you and I have talked about our love for power tools, it felt like there was no place for me to talk about my latest construction project at the mother daughter banquet, you know, like, so it felt, you know, it's that whole square peg, round hole thing, like, at times just feeling like I don't fit. I'm not, you know, I like a ball cap. I'm not, not always wearing makeup. I'm definitely not putting eyeliner on. Like, it's, you know, some of those stereotypes. So at times, women's ministry felt like, Oh no, thank you. Like, are we doing a service project where I can paint or get dirty, or because that's what I want to do, I actually don't want

Laurie Acker: 11:17

to Yeah, you know, I love that. You said women's ministry at times felt like that, or feels like this, because our experience really carries into our what we feel safe or comfortable in. And you know, when you talked about your upbringing, you know, with a barn and a farm. I didn't grow up on a farm, but when you said what you like to do as a little girl, that's really funny, because I love to play Matchbox cars with my brother, and we would go out in the dirt and, like, build a little ranch and roadways in the dirt and stuff like that. And that's really funny that I hadn't I never really had thought about my childhood experience and how that could have moved into it. The other thing that I've seen with people in women's ministry, and by the way, if you're listening and you love women's ministry, awesome. If you love tea parties, awesome. If you love you know, just the flowers and the decorating and the details, that is great. We are not going to talk against that or anti that, but what Charmaine and I are going to talk about, and honestly, even all month, and then at the Women's Conference at the end of the month. And by the way, if you haven't gotten your free ticket yet, I think by the time this airs, they'll be available. It's a free conference. It is really, really great. We'll make sure to drop the link in the show notes. But it's really great to bring friends to it. It brings, like, people get really excited to serve the volunteers who've been on the edge that you want to loop in, like, get them to this free conference, and you're just gonna love it. It's online and free. So anyway, just lost my train of thought, charming. Can

Charmaine Stulp: 12:52

I jump in? Yeah, go ahead. One sec. So, yeah, women's ministry conference coming up, I think already there's some women who have seen that headline or the advertising for it, or they're listening, and they go on, I'm not going to that because I'm not into women's ministry. Well, trust me, you can. You need to come, because we're going to talk a bit about that in this podcast. But also you will find streams of learning and things that meet your need, even if you're not into traditional women's ministry. So please, you still remember

Laurie Acker: 13:32

the first conference you spoke at Charmaine, your even your photo, because we do this like, you have to put in a headshot she had goggles on and a power tool. Like, I will never forget that, because you talked about how women's ministry doesn't have to be typical, and how you can kind of bring in, you know, other loves and stuff. But as you mentioned that, as we talk about it, a lot of people in smaller churches will say, we don't have a women's ministry. We're too small for a women's ministry. I want a women's ministry, but nobody will jump on board with me. And the flip that we love to do is taking the phrase women's ministry and deconstructing a little bit and talking about a ministry to women, because we don't need a formalized women's ministry. You don't need a women's ministry team even to have an incredible ministry to women. And that's one thing in smaller churches that we have an opportunity to it doesn't have to look typical or even super structured or organized. We don't need a monthly event. We don't need a weekly Bible study. There's a lot of incredible impact that happens with ministry to women that can be in the form of relationships. Do you want to just take off on that a little bit? Charmaine,

Charmaine Stulp: 14:53

yeah, you know, Laurie, you're the first one that flipped that phrase for me and and honestly, made me feel better about the fact that I didn't, wasn't this huge fan of traditional women's ministry. You're the, you're the first one who said, Yeah, but you have a ministry to women, and it was like, Oh, she sees me. She sees she sees that I do. And I was fail. I was feeling like I was fail, somehow a failure, because I was also a pastor's wife. So, I mean, shouldn't I, as a pastor's wife, be the one to run? Hmm, this so called Tea Party women's ministry. Like it was just this layered, complex pressure that I felt. And so, yeah, when you said, Charmaine, you do do ministry to women, it was like, Oh, yes, I do. Thank you. And and being intentional about that with, yeah, one or two women who had similar, similar interests who were never, ever going to come to a formal women's ministry at my church. That's

Laurie Acker: 16:05

really interesting that you say that I remember when I've asked you to speak at the women's ministry for small churches conference. Yeah, I think you still did this, even last year, every time I ask you, you're like, Well, I don't know that I should, because I'm not really involved in the women's ministry at my church, and you still push back on that. But I just want to say when I hear you just talking casually, Charmaine, I don't honestly know that I've had one conversation with you when you have not mentioned I am going to go meet so and so right now, or I'm going to help so and so move, or I'm making a meal, or somebody's coming to my house. You did it today earlier, like we postpone this podcast a little later, because you said, Hey, I'm going to go meet my friend. And last week, or the week before, we were talking, you're like, I am helping so and so move. I'm going to go help her organize or pack. And I think part of your, I don't know, your superpower is honestly your heart for serving, because you will find it. You just see a woman who needs help with someone, you're like, Oh, I'll come help with that. Or, Hey, could you come help with this? Yeah, so talk about, talk about this in your life.

Charmaine Stulp: 17:20

Well, yeah, there's always the I always push back because I I want to be truthful and I don't want to, I don't want to try to paint some I don't want to paint a picture that isn't accurate. So my my fear when I do a podcast like this is that some of the women who I go to church with would hear this exactly, exactly why, like Charmaine, doesn't come to women's ministry 75% of the time, you know, because there's a great women's ministry program at my church, but I am not there every time that that event is on. And so, yeah, that's the thing where I just go. I want to be truthful about this, and and, and the women who are leading that ministry are doing an incredible job, and it is totally in their wheelhouse, and it's an incredible gathering of women, and I prefer ministry that looks a little different and has, yeah, different opportunities. I truly would rather come to your house and fold the sheets in your linen closet, if that you know would be something you would like, or Yeah, help you unpack. I would like to make your bed so you have somewhere to sleep that's cozy that night when you move into a house that, for me, fills my tank, and I hope is a blessing or a service to Yeah, the woman that I'm making her bed when she's moving. So

Laurie Acker: 19:00

let's talk about the women who have influenced our lives the most as individuals. Because as you're speaking, I am thinking of people who served me, someone who sent me a gift when I didn't expect it. When I was moving across the country, someone who showed up at my door with food, which doesn't normally happen that way around, right? Someone who cared enough to say, Hey, do you need help? What can I help with? Those are the women like when I really think of it. Those are the women who made the biggest difference in my life. I'm trying to remember, yeah, you know, things that have been hosted at church, you know, and really, how much personal impact it had on me not, not to make light of events or programs, because I believe events and programs are needed many times. Yes, they help facilitate relationships. They bring people together if they're done well, yes, but the value in going to a party, I believe, really is found in those relationships. So Charmaine, how can we be intentional about these relationships? Because when we say organic relationships. Sometimes people just think you're friends. You know who you're friends with, you know who your closest friends are, because otherwise it wouldn't be organic. How can we be intentional about seeing needs, about taking steps toward women? Maybe we wouldn't normally hang out with, maybe the women in our churches who. Aren't also part of the women's ministry, or are hanging back, or people who seem a little disconnected. What do we do and how does that become impactful?

Charmaine Stulp: 20:45

Yeah, I think you know, I heard this phrase a couple weeks ago. The phrase was trying to determine a hierarchy of need to believe, is how the phrase was worded. And you know, there are people in our churches, in our maybe, you know, in our social circles, maybe the people we meet at the hockey game because their son plays on the same team as my son, or whatever. And sometimes you meet somebody and they have a ton of friends, they have a ton of support, they have a ton of family that lives close by. And then you meet somebody who's new to the area and doesn't know anybody, or doesn't have family nearby, or just is just, you know, yeah, new to the area, so they don't have a lot of friends. And if I'm gonna decide who I might spend my time with, sometimes the question is, what, who, who needs me to spend my time with them? You know? So this, this last, you know, it was a good friend of mine who moved but she's newer to the area and not didn't have a ton of other women who would be able to come and help make beds. Well, that's pretty easy to decide that that's the priority for me, as opposed to helping someone else who has a whole bunch of family surrounding them. It's super practical in a way, like, you know, if I'm gonna spend four hours out in the evening, well, what would be the best use of my time, or what matters most? Who matters most in my options? I just, I think it's important to to see people, and it can also that can be overwhelming. I'm gonna like as at times we can feel like too many people need us and so again, you know, I try really hard to to be careful with my schedule, so that when I show up for somebody, I'm not coming in on coming in on two wheels, as our friend Amy says, but I am showing up in a better place, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, because I haven't I also haven't booked night after Night after night after weekend after weekend. I don't do that anymore, where I try hard. Does that make it totally does.

Laurie Acker: 23:19

And you know, as you're talking, I don't know if you consider yourself an extrovert or an introvert. Which one do you consider yourself?

Charmaine Stulp: 23:27

I'm both. I am an ambivert, kind

Laurie Acker: 23:28

of thought so, because I've seen both sides of you quite honestly. But a lot of times, when we talk about building relationships with people where there isn't one or it's a new one, people get very shy, very awkward. I don't know what to say. I don't know how I would even do that. I see somebody a neighbor, how do I approach them? What do I do? And these are the kind of skills that we honestly will talk about more at the conference. We train on it in some of our other trainings, and women's ministry and things like that with in small church ministry. But these are life skills that a lot of us don't grow up naturally. Like, if you're listening and you're like, I don't even know how I'd ask somebody if I could go to their house and make their bed like, what? What is that? I just want to throw this out there that doing things with people is usually easier than going out for coffee. Like, if I think about my favorite women's ministry events or church events, it's really awkward when there's nothing to do. I love it even with youth ministry, like, hey, youth, come on over. Let's bake cookies. You know, it's a lot easier than trying to sit in a circle and get people to talk. And so a lot of times when we are doing things honestly, the relationships come easier and more naturally, because there's already a natural conversation to have, even if we're just saying, Hey, let's go on a walk together. Do you like to walk? I like to walk? Let's go for a walk. Let's meet at the park and go for a walk. Or shovel snow. I'll help you shovel snow. Sorry, trying to transport myself up to Ontario Charmaine, because I'm in Tucson. No shovel in here. But when I think of those things quite honestly, they are more natural, although I'm also very aware, in our individual society, some people are very uncomfortable accepting help, and I think there's a beautiful industry in that. Also, no really, this is what I do. This is what I'd love to do. I would love to help with that. Yeah. Can you talk about ways to make those kind of entrances easier? Hmm,

Charmaine Stulp: 25:34

yeah. I mean, so I was a hair stylist for

Laurie Acker: 25:40

20 so you learned the skill there.

Charmaine Stulp: 25:43

You talk about, yeah, you talk about, you know, a lesson in, in getting to know people. So you learn pretty easy, how to start conver pretty quickly, how to start conversations. And if I was out for coffee with the person or the same in the same way as if I was starting a hair appointment, if I had a client in my chair who came in for foils, for example, for foil highlights. They were there for two two and a half hours, and if they were a stranger, never been in my chair before. It's going to be an awkward two and a half hours, if I don't have leading questions. And a lot of times I would say so I would love to hear about you. Why don't we start with where you were born? Because, you know, we've got two and a half hours, and let's start at the beginning. And let's let, let me just tell me your story. And of course, you, you know, you don't get very far into their life story before you there's a connection. You realize, you know, you might know somebody that lived at a con. You know, you lived where, oh, my goodness, I had a cousin who lived there. And, you know, whatever. So it's, it's practice and having a few questions. Some people like my mom, she was so good at this, my mom could ask questions in such an incredible way, it just blew my mind. That does not come easy to me. I have to actually think about it. I have to be plain like plan. So that's why the you know, let's start with when you were born, is a good one for me, because it just gives, it gives a pretty big range of where this conversation go. Because, yeah, it's not, it isn't. It isn't easy for everybody. So have a couple questions that you have in your, you know, in your brain, and,

Laurie Acker: 27:47

yeah, if you're listening, you're scared, or you've never done anything like this. You've never really tried to, you know, talk to someone you don't know very well. Just take the risk. Like, the risk is very small. It feels really big, but really if a conversation goes bad, we've all lived through that, like, just do it scared, ask some questions, get to know somebody. And I'll also just throw this out there as you talk about serving and helping other people. Charmaine, because I know this. I truly think this is one of your superpowers. Like you just you enter people's lives in this in this way of serving. But I want to just bring up for everybody, listening in ourselves, as a reminder that we can't always be the hero. People don't trust people when you're just helping other people all the time. Like, you know, what builds trust with people is actually being vulnerable. And I think we have so much fear about being vulnerable because we've been hurt. We have reasons for that. We stay private, we do all that. But if you're really trying to build a relationship with someone, that vulnerability, it actually builds trust. Like this is scientifically studied these days, that people are trusted more when they're actually human, right? So even though I will ask somebody, you know, hey, could you help me with this? Or, oh my gosh, let's swap days, you help me with my kitchen organization one day, and then I'll help you with yours, you know, so sometimes that's another entry point. But as we talk about these different ways to connect with with women, this flip on ministry to women, rather than a typical women's ministry. We don't have a whole lot of time Charmaine. I just want to kind of bring it home and land the plane a little bit, because we're going to keep talking about this in the future as well. But I kind of mentioned before, I don't think it's either or. I think it's a both, and I think we should work toward some events and programs because they facilitate women's ministry. I think they work for a lot of people. But then, if we have a both and, of having understanding that all ministry does not happen in the context of a program that we've got a both and, and we're developing relationships also independently, sometimes instead of because some women will never go into a formalized women's ministry. Some women can't. They don't have the accessibility. They have fibromyalgia. They're confined at home. They have children with special needs. They literally cannot get to the events that we hold. If this is a both, and I just want to talk a little bit about the danger of only having a programmed women's ministry. Like, what do we lose when we only have like, if women's ministry only is in the context of program and events and a formalized structure? What do you think we lose?

Charmaine Stulp: 30:31

I. Think, I mean, we lose, well, we lose the women who aren't in our churches. Because, again, hardly ever is a woman who isn't a part of your church going, she's not just going to show up. She might show up for a special event that you've invited her to, like a paint night, or, you know, progressive supper at great restaurants, like, yeah, your, your unchurched friend may come to that, but that, I think to me, that's what stands out as the most the biggest loss is that your, your silo, so to speak, your your narrow window of people inside your church, that's great, but you've got a whole world out there who is outside your church, and they need Jesus, they need encouragement, they need friends. They need to be a friend. I love that you said that, Laurie, about just that it has to be reciprocal. And, you know, I've been thinking in with this conversation coming up, that whole, you know, if you want to make a friend, you have to be a friend. But I've thought, yeah, but also, if you want to make a friend, you have to need a friend. Ooh, say that. And if you want to make a friend, you have to need a friend. And it's what you just said, that we also need to be vulnerable. My friend, who I just helped move she makes incredible rice. She's going to be teaching me how to make that rice, because I I need that. I don't make great rice, and I need her in my life, and I need her friendship. You know, I was sick last week, and she said, Do you need anything? She you know, would have brought me whatever I needed. And I just, yeah, I have a woman you know in my life who I don't know her well at all. I got to meet her as part of a Christmas choir. She goes to a different church. I think she's a little bit older than I am, and I am going to take her out for dinner so that I can learn from her. I just, there's something about her, and I don't have this, you know, I know we're not going to become best friends. I don't, I don't need that. But I, I know that I can learn from her. And so I that's something, you know, I'm going to reach out to her and say, Can I just have an hour of your time, and I just want to hear a bit of your life story and how it is that you just ooze the love of Jesus and grace and and tell me about, you know, just t I literally just want her to talk the whole like the whole hour, So I can learn from her.

Laurie Acker: 33:33

And that's gonna bless her in so many ways, like, if you think about it, how many times does somebody come up and say, I'd like to learn from you? I'd like to hear about your life. Did you, you know? Because, I mean, so many times we feel so isolated and oftentimes unseen or unappreciated, or, you know, those kind of things. So I can't wait to hear how that conversation goes, and I hope you'll, I hope you'll share it with me, because I'd love to know, I think that's another great, great thing. We're also don't have to always be reaching out, helping everybody either, you know, I think this idea of organic relationships, this both and in women's ministry, or ministry to women, is incredibly powerful. If you weren't so humble, Charmaine, and I know you don't like talking about yourself much, I would literally be asking you, give me three women that you like you changed their life because you did this, you reached into them. But I know I don't want to ask you that, because I know you won't want to share, but I know there will be a lineup of people you know, who you know I laugh because I have a friend who takes funeral pictures because she's like, I don't want bad pictures my funeral. So every now and then, she's like, Come on, let's take a funeral picture real quick so that I have something good to share. But I'm like picturing that, you know, because at the end of our lives, you know, who's gonna show up? Who knows, right? But, man, I'd rather have somebody showing up saying, wow, you know, I just remember, you know, when that person took me out, when she showed me that she cared, because I really don't think we're gonna have a lot of people saying, oh my gosh, that person threw the best women's ministry paint party, you know, like, think about, you know, what's impactful, what is deep, what's really influential, what builds people, what challenges people, what helps us think differently. Go deeper, it's relationships, like 100% so,

Charmaine Stulp: 35:27

yeah, relationships and, you know, like all. Just honesty. I I just told this story a couple days ago where, when our first daughter, Michaela, was born, and those first couple weeks at church where everybody's just all, oh, it's so exciting, yeah, newborn baby. And this woman at church, probably 20 years older than me, walked up to me, took my face in her hands, and very quickly, I knew this was a really serious conversation by the look on her face. And she said to me, Charmaine, your daughter's beautiful. And she said, and I am so happy for you. And then she said, and the day will come when you want to throw her against a wall. I burst laughing again, only to realize she was serious because she was still holding my face in her hands. And then she just said, when that day comes, you put her in her crib, and you call me and you go for a walk, just said, and I'll be there. And, you know, I I just okay. That was 23 years ago. My daughter's 23 but when I think about authentic women, like ministry to women. That was it, because that conversation took about two minutes, but it communicated to me that this motherhood thing is going to take you through the ringer. It is hard. Nobody else had said to me how hard, brutally honest, hard it might get, or it could get, or it would get, and she, in that moment, was like, it will be hard, and when it's hard, I'm here to help you, and this is what you do. And like that isn't that? Isn't that what it's about? Yeah,

Laurie Acker: 37:32

I love that you said, she never said I'll be there. Like when you said that, I got goosebumps, and I was like, isn't that the core of ministry, of ministry to women, life on life, it's I'll be there when you're having a hard time. I will be there when you, you know, start to isolate yourself. I'm watching. I see you. I will be there when you make a terrible decision. I will be there when you feel like your life is on the edge or the brink. I will be there when you're celebrating. I will be there like if we could just genuinely say I will be there. Can you imagine if every woman had a woman in their life who just said I will be there, yep,

Charmaine Stulp: 38:15

yep, yep, and different age, younger, older,

Laurie Acker: 38:22

so beautiful. So let's, let's be those people. Not that every one of us can reach 80 people. That's not what we're saying. But you have a couple people in your life that you literally could say to to them, I will be there. You know, the whole each one reach one like I'm telling you, I would revolutionize small church ministry if every woman who hears this podcast, who comes to the conference, who's in her if every woman just had one woman, we could say two, I'll be there. Yeah.

Charmaine Stulp: 39:00

So good. Laurie,

Laurie Acker: 39:03

well, I'm looking forward to more conversations. Charmaine, with you, with those who are listening absolutely in our community as we keep embracing this ministry that God has called us to, not the ministry necessarily women's ministry or a specific ministry or a specific church or a specific denomination, but the ministry of being there For other people, like in the name of Jesus. Yeah, it's pretty beautiful, pretty powerful. You got any last words before we close out here? Charmaine, oh,

Charmaine Stulp: 39:42

I don't know if I do. I just think you know this right here, right you and I having a conversation, having some laughs and also some tears, some funny Canadian, American accents. This is, this is, this is ministry. This is life. And I think it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, I love what you're doing, Laurie, I just, I want to encourage you what you have done for small churches, for women in small churches, for women in ministry, in small churches, we we probably won't know until you know we get to heaven and we hear those stories of the way that God used you in your. Street to impact women in small churches. I just want to encourage you as you continue on this calling that that you have, and you're just, you're doing incredible things, and I'm, I'm just so grateful, so grateful that I finally came and listened to Reno

Laurie Acker: 40:52

it didn't take you that long, because we've only been around about four years, right? So, I mean, I guess you probably spoke at our second or third conference. I don't even know, but anyway, well, I'm so glad you got to be here. Thank you, Charmaine, for your encouragement and for everyone listening. You're part of it. We are all part of this mission, and and we are making a difference. You are making a difference where you are. So don't be so hard on yourself and just smile at someone. Start a conversation, let them know that you will be there. Let's quit burning out. Let's quit spinning so fast that we're not present for the people in our you know, who are right in front of us. And because I think that's how Jesus lived, like whoever was in front of him at the time. You know, I'm about my father's work. Let's do the same. Sam, all right, until next week, y'all be a light. You