139: You're Never Too Old To Learn The Guitar Or Start A Women's Ministry | with Pamela Yates

In today's episode, we're talking to small church volunteer Pamela Yates from Milan, Indiana. 

After retiring from a career in teaching, Pam never imagined she'd be learning to play an instrument, stepping into worship leading, heading up a women's ministry, and more. 

Listen in for an inspirational testimony of God not calling the equipped, but equipping the called!

Connect with Pamela Yates:
https://wheregodleads.com/

Join our free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministry


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Transcript

Laurie Acker: 0:01

Hey, this is Laurie Acker, welcome to the small church ministry podcast. Hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of the small church ministry podcast. Fun interview today with Pam Yates, and I just have to tell the story first. Pam was my first non family fan. We had started this little, tiny blog and and Pam, I think you actually left a comment on a blog article. Is that how we connected?

Pamela Yates: 0:38

Yeah, actually, I was looking for help in learning to lead worship. And I ran across the article about leading worship, and that's and I sent you a message about that, just and you

Laurie Acker: 0:56

have no idea, but I was like, happy dance, and I'm like, a stranger just reached out, and who knew four years later we would have, like, this explosion, you know, just small churches worldwide, connecting. It's crazy, yeah,

Pamela Yates: 1:09

and it's, it's funny, because I didn't know that until several years later, when I heard you talk about it on a podcast. You didn't know what I didn't I didn't know that I was the first non family member connected, you know, that was, I heard that on a podcast, and I was like, Wow. You know, there's a couple times the podcast, and I'm like, hey, that's me.

Laurie Acker: 1:33

I know you're, you're famous. You're just completely famous. Because, you know, when you start these online, online things, you know? It's like, well, gosh, is anybody going to read this, other than my mom, you know? And so there you are. So you're famous, Pam. Now I want to tell everybody why I brought you on the podcast show. So you all. Pam is in Indiana, and she's at a small church, and I admire her. She has just been like a model of so many things that we teach, but especially you all like, she started playing the bass when she was over 50 years old because her church needed it like and then since then, Pam, I've seen you step out in women's ministry and so much and so many times when people find us, you know, a lot of times they are like, in the second half or half of their life, and they're like, Yeah, We got to let the younger people do it, or I couldn't learn that, or I don't know how to do that. And so to me, Pam, you are like a model, like how she were in my church. I'd want you, you know, on my team, all over the place, and so, so that's why Pam's here. She's going to talk about, you know, and I know you were serving in your church prior to retirement, but we're also going to talk about, like, serving in retirement and what small churches can do, and some of your experience. Does that sound like a good plan for us today?

Pamela Yates: 2:48

Yeah, that works. Um, cool. You just saw me start talking about it.

Laurie Acker: 2:53

Yeah, just dive in. How did you end up playing bass and tell us a little about your church ministry, you know, maybe 10 years ago, and then we can talk about what's happened since then.

Pamela Yates: 3:01

Okay, so our band that we've had for a few years, it suddenly had a max Exodus. I mean, the whole band left, and they asked this young man to be the worship leader, and he had a few kids that played with him for a while, until they went away to college, and then he was by himself. And the first Sunday that he was by himself, after church, I talked to him and said, Can I help you? I I can't play anything well, but whatever you need me to do, I'll learn. And that's kind of how it started?

Laurie Acker: 3:42

Wow, can I help you? And I will do whatever you need. I will learn now. I have to just be straight here. Like, we don't get a lot of volunteers like that in a lot of churches like and I think some of it is a confidence thing. It's not like they don't want to, but do they think they really could? And so you kind of had that edge. And I remember early on, you told me stories of, I think maybe your daughter, did she think it was weird that you were playing

Pamela Yates: 4:05

bass. Yeah. I mean, you know, when I first, I took some acoustic lessons a few years before, but I really didn't get very good, and I quit taking lessons. But, yeah, they just, they thought it was weird. You know, that's something that the younger people should do. I guess I didn't let that bother me. I loved it, so, but

Laurie Acker: 4:27

what you're talking about with musicians is really common in small churches like we see this happen a lot on the Facebook community. How do you all find musicians? Where are your musicians? I know, Pam, you are in a church of under 100 you're not in a big church that has a big band and a whole lot of people. And so one thing that I'll say often is, if you can't find a musician, you can probably teach one, because in most of our churches, we have people who've always wanted to play something, the drums, the guitar, the bass, and here you are, like you you're picking up bass on your own, and kind. Learning it. So I love that you kind of modeled that.

Pamela Yates: 5:04

Yeah, he, he sent me home with chord chart, and I had played acoustic enough that I knew where the notes were on the fretboard. So that helped a little bit. But three weeks later, I was, I was up there with him playing. I didn't sing. That's amazing. Yeah, I didn't sing at first. I couldn't play and sing at the same time, so, but that was good. I had four years without singing and and then he left, and we had another guy who's our worship leader, that kind of kind of helped me learn what worship leading was about. You know, how to put a set together and stuff like that, because I helped him out a lot. And then I kind of led out of necessity for a while, because and I was leading from the base then, but my pastor really didn't want me leading from base. And so we had a young man that I invited. I had taught him in school. I was a school teacher, and I knew that he was really good, and so I asked him to join us, and he said, Yes, he came one Sunday and played acoustic guitar, and I played bass, and he just, he's at such a natural. He just kind of did it, you know, and my pastor said, I think I'd like to see him week next week. And so that was right before covid. It was just a time for me to learn how to play acoustic, because I knew he wasn't going to stay. He was one of these. He was looking for bigger things. And, you know, I truly think God has bigger things for him. And so my pastor told me it was time for me to pick up another instrument that I could lead from either keyboard or or a guitar. And I had piano lessons when I was a kid, but not, not anything that I enjoy doing. So I practice was not a thing that I like to do. So I had, you know, an acoustic guitar here at the house, and so I picked it up and started practicing. And then all of a sudden, young man was gone, and my pastor said, Can you lead next week? And so that's kind of how my acoustic leading started. And he said, just so you know you're doing this solo.

Laurie Acker: 7:55

So so you're leading worship now solo. And let's go back to not too long ago. You said, I don't know anything, but I'm willing to help you pick up the bass. Now you're playing acoustic, and now you are the worship leader at your church,

Pamela Yates: 8:08

right?

Laurie Acker: 8:10

And can I just ask how old were you when you became the lead worship the worship leader at your church? 6060. So you all who are listening right now, like, just, like, I just want to, like, do a big shout out, but I also just want to say so many people like, like, we, we almost give up on ourselves way before God would give up on us. Like, well, we can't learn that we don't know that we've never done that, you know? And this is something that was so outside of your element. What did you teach in school? Pam, because you were a school teacher,

Pamela Yates: 8:45

PE and health. PE,

Laurie Acker: 8:47

in health. So let's just say this is not, she wasn't a music teacher. Pam, was not a music teacher, and she's now the worship leader at your church. And Pam, can I just ask you, just just internally, what what gave you the confidence that you could do it. Because I know a lot of people would just say, No,

Pamela Yates: 9:04

I I don't think I had a choice. It was when I volunteered to help the worst just came out, and I was like, Where'd that come from? I just, I don't know, I just felt like it was what God wanted me to do, I guess. I mean, I was just led to it. Okay? So when you say

Laurie Acker: 9:29

you didn't think you had a choice, you didn't mean because your pastor was pressuring you, you thought like you were totally being led and that God was going to just give you what you needed. Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. Next up for you, I know you moved into women's ministry, which was something you also did not really think you would be leading. Can you tell us how you stepped into that? And again, like just for just because we're talking about retirement ages, how old were you when you found yourself? 12, you know, moving into women's ministry and and what was that transition, and even kind of an evolution for you? Because I know you did a few different things, and how did that go for you

Pamela Yates: 10:09

right before? I mean, I joined when I retired, I thought there was no reason to not join the Bible study, the women's bible study at church. So I joined them. And that was in 2019 and so I joined that. And I I, for some reason, I was kind of feeling like I would like for our women to have a retreat, you know, just us just get away and spend some time together in in the word and building relationships. And that was my thought. And I mentioned it to my pastor, and that kind of wasn't something he was not that he wasn't interested in it, but it was not on in his wheelhouse. So, you know, he didn't encourage it. And so I just kind of let it go. And then covid hit, and a few years later, a friend of mine said we need to have a women's retreat for our ladies. And I'm like, Okay, let's do it. So that's kind of how that came up. And I dove into, you know, and this is how I did everything. I dove into the internet. I mean, when I first started leading worship, I watched all of Paul blashes videos on learning to lead worship, you know, and so just immersed myself in putting together a retreat, what all I needed to do. And one of the ladies that I had gone to another local retreat with asked me, Is this retreat going to be anything like the other one we've gone to? And I thought about it, and I said, No, it's not. That's not what God's putting on my heart. And yeah, it was totally, totally different. And when I had my plan, that's not, I mean, I had some extra things in there that I didn't think we would necessarily use, um, but I, as the day went on, I would like not do one thing, and it got to the end of the day, and I just felt led to do a prayer activity that I really didn't think I would use. It was kind of an extra thing, because it wasn't necessarily in my comfort zone, and we ended up adding that, and it ended up being probably the most impactful thing that we did. So,

Laurie Acker: 12:50

so what have you learned about yourself over the last few years? Because you really went from a church attender, but not super involved in ministry, to saying I can help to becoming a worship leader, to then, you know, really stepping into women's ministry. What have you learned about yourself in the last couple years?

Pamela Yates: 13:10

You know, I never really thought of myself as a leader, but, but I found that I am a leader, and God has put some things on my heart that I didn't expect. I went to an Emmaus walk this past year, and, yeah, I I was kind of wrestling with God one night, like, what, what am I supposed to get out of this retreat? And, you know, I felt like he was telling me I needed to pour into other people so that he could give me what he had for me next. I still don't know what that is, but, you know, and

Laurie Acker: 14:07

so the Emmaus walk, just for people who are unfamiliar. And this is a retreat that's put on, usually by a group of churches. And there's, there's a lot of different types of these retreats that happen in many different denominational settings. There's the Emmaus walk, there's Curcio, there's Via de Cristo. Like, kind of, they're, they're almost, there's almost, kind of, like a type of what these retreats are. But can you tell people, like, what you expected from that, and maybe what you got from that?

Pamela Yates: 15:06

I had no idea what to expect. I said i I thought there would be prayer and singing and lessons to learn, but I really had no idea, and I was told, don't anticipate. So I was like, Okay, I don't know. And it. Uh, the first evening was a little different than what I expected. Um, I can't give away too much, because it's something you have to experience it for yourself. Every person gets something different out of it. Um, but I just kind of felt like, you know when, when I started that retreat, I was, I really felt like that was my baby, you know, and I was, I was kind of being encouraged to let other people do things. And I was like, but, but this is mine, you know, God put this on my heart, and I know what he wants. That's how I mean, I was really holding on to it.

Laurie Acker: 16:20

And one time about the women's retreat that you let at your church, yes, yes. And,

Pamela Yates: 16:25

um, he just let me know that it wasn't just mine. It was from him. It was a kind of a gift that he gave me to share. And so now my task is to bring other women alongside me so that they can help and I don't have to do so much. It was this last year we went from 20 people the first year just from my church. In this last year, we had 60

Laurie Acker: 17:03

at the speed, yeah, two retreats, yeah,

Pamela Yates: 17:07

yeah, two years. I've done it in this last one I love

Laurie Acker: 17:11

as you're talking about almost your evolution as a leader, because it's very it's a pretty normal process to kind of go in and feel like you have to do it all and and there's an edge of wanting to do it, because you need to kind of feel out how things work. But if we hang on to that for too long, and we don't invite others into the process, we're not just limiting ourselves, but we're limiting them. So are you excited to bring other people into that and, like, start developing other leaders alongside or is it kind of scary?

Pamela Yates: 17:40

Yeah, it's a little scary in that I'm losing control. And I'm very much a control freak. I always have been, but it is a little scary, because I felt like I knew what God wanted, and I was afraid if I let go too much, somebody else was going to come in and take charge and do it differently than what I felt like he wanted. But what I found is that I was trying to hold on to we did prayer stations this past year, and I let somebody else do some of the prayer stations, and I left one of them that I was going to do, and when it got down to it. I she was much better at it than I was, and she ended up, you know, and so, yeah, that's and I've really been surprised one of the young ladies, she's in her 30s, mid 30s, probably maybe a little lower than that. But anyway, she did some of our break our what's the word I want, some of the activities where we got to know each other, yeah? Icebreakers, yeah, yeah, exactly. And she did a wonderful job. I mean, it was really, really good. She did two or three activities. And so I'm like, I'm seeing leaders in other people. When, when I reach out, I find that they're busy, you know, and think that they don't have time. And so that's the struggle that I'm coming up against, is, you know, they feel like they can't because they don't have time. And so I think getting things organized a little bit so that no one has to feel overwhelmed. Is important, so that nobody has a huge chunk of things that they need to do, and we need to have teams for each section of what we need to do. We're going to a new venue next year. The church came alongside of us, and they are really kind of putting some backing behind their words. You know, they paid our down payment for the retreat venue this year, which was a lot more than what we paid in the past. Past. So it was good to know that they feel like this is important, probably one of the biggest outreach ministries we have.

Laurie Acker: 20:42

Well, you said you you know your first retreat, you had 20, your next retreat, the next year, you had 60. And you know, I love watching and even hearing you talk about, you know your evolution as a leader, quite honestly, because you went from wanting to, you know, control it all yourself, and then finding out that when you let other people do it, they may have even done better than you, yeah. And now I don't even know if you kind of heard even your transition now you're like reaching out to people who are busy, you know. And so, like all of these things are so common in all of our churches like this, this is normal, right? And this is where God brings his community around to make us all better, and we are going to have challenges, and we're going to watch him work in and through us. So what, what do you think is one way you've grown the most, like in your leadership? What's been a big thing for you over the past, you know, 10 years, because you said you didn't think you were a leader for a while, and now you're like acknowledging that you're a leader. So what's been one of the biggest

Pamela Yates: 21:42

just the confidence to even try it, is huge, because I would have never imagined that I would be doing any of what I'm doing, didn't necessarily feel that my knowledge of the Bible was probably where it needed to be, and so immersing myself in the Bible study, I mean, I'm doing, I'm doing two Bible studies a week now, at sometimes three, if our pastor has one going on. But yeah, I've, I've learned a ton. My pastor encouraged me to read the Bible every day. Have a journal that I'm writing my prayer requests in, so I can look back and see or God's been working, you know, to have personal worship time every day. I mean, it's and I mean, I took him at his word, and I made it a habit to spend time in my Bible every day. Even before I retired, I would get up and spend at least 15 minutes in the Bible app before I started getting ready for school. So it's certainly developed some good habits in me. I think my confidence, I mean, I would have never sung, you know, before I started leading, I was singing a little bit with the rest of the team when we had a different worship leader that you know, to go up there by myself. The first time I'm leading by myself and I'm singing by myself, that was a little scary.

Laurie Acker: 23:36

I think it was a lot scary. I actually remember talking to you because we've had a few conversations over the years. I remember when you struggled, when the pastor wanted you to say a prayer from the front, from the microphone, and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't think I can do that. And Pam, I just want to tell you right now, this isn't just about your confidence and your leadership, because somebody listening right now like they've been shaking in their boots, like they're like, I could never sing, I could never pray, I could never lead, oh my gosh, I could never learn an instrument. I could never and it's really never too late. You know, I heard a speaker say, not too long ago, if you've got breath, you've got purpose. Like, if you are still breathing, you have purpose. And I look at you and what a difference, how blessed your church is to have you, what a difference you are making in your local, small church. Like it is amazing. What would you say to somebody listening right now? That's like, Oh, I could never do what Pam does. Like, clearly she has leadership skills, because at least she was a teacher. Like, what would you say to them out there listening?

Pamela Yates: 24:43

I mean, yeah, even though I was a teacher, and people will tell me that, well, you can talk in front of people because you were a teacher, it's a whole different ball game. And when my pastor, he didn't ask me ahead of time to say a prayer to end the service, he did it from the back of the sanctuary, and just asked me on the spot, you know, to say a prayer, and that I stumbled through it. I mean, it was okay, I guess, but not something I was expecting necessarily. But, you know, you get used to it. I mean, there are still days when I get up there and I'm. Thinking, What on earth am I doing up here? You know, I I don't have what I need

Laurie Acker: 25:37

me too. Pam, I just, I still say that, yeah, what am I doing here?

Pamela Yates: 25:43

There's some, some days when, you know, I hear Satan in my head saying, you you can't do this. You're not any good you know, you can't sing, you can't play guitar, you're not good enough. And you know, I'm just found that God can knock all those lies down. They come up again at times. But I feel comfortable my church. I know my church appreciates me, and I do, I, I led by myself for five weeks, but after that, our keyboard player came back, and so it's she and I, and if I'm gone, she leads by herself, and if she's gone, I lead by myself. So it works out, you know, and we've we've done some other things out in the community. In fact, we've got two times in the next couple of months where we're playing at a Methodist get together. One of them is a big picnic, and the other one is just a Thursday music night at the shelter that they have in the summertime. We've done it before, and it's fun. We've done a couple other things, but you know, my my main focus has been on worship music. There was a stint there where I was invited to play in a band, and we were doing rock and roll music, and I was playing bass there and trying to learn to play acoustic to leave at church. And I finally was I felt God telling me I needed to step away from that so I could concentrate on learning the acoustic better. And that was something I really, really wanted to do, but I got to the point where that's I just knew that's not where I was supposed to be, and so I stepped away from that and but

Laurie Acker: 27:40

okay, I'm gonna go back to the question, because you didn't quite answer it. If somebody's listening right now and they're like, I'm hearing what Pam says, but I could never do that. If they're kind of feeling nudged, or they see a need at their church, or, you know, they're feeling too old or not capable enough, or like I could never do that. What would you say to them?

Pamela Yates: 28:01

God, God can use anyone to do anything that he wants to know. Just think about Moses. You know, he didn't think he could lead in. You God can use your life to do a way more than you ever expected. And I just would say, spend some time in prayer and ask Him to show you. Ask Him to show you what he wants you to do. And it's not like I would expect anyone to I realized three weeks and then being up there may sound absurd, but I wouldn't expect that for everybody. It was just I immersed myself in it. You know, I would spend hours each day practicing, um, so don't ever discount what you feel God telling you just you just got to pray about it. And I think that's that's really important, and it's important to listen to what he says. And it may not be you don't have to hear him talk to you, but to he may speak to other people to build you up. And I just think you got to listen. Then you just got to do it. Yeah, yeah, just do it and do it. Scared. Start you can start small. It doesn't have to be a huge thing, you know? I mean, when I first led by myself and sang by myself, I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, and and I started, I started strung my guitar, and I was like, I didn't sound too bad. And then I started singing, and I was like, well, that doesn't sound too bad either, you know? I mean, it is what it is, you know, they get what they get and

Laurie Acker: 30:00

well, and God uses us all like I believe, God grows us. He uses us. He calls us. And there's, there's no person sitting in a pew or a chair anywhere in a church that doesn't have gifts to share, and sometimes we get to test them out and try them in different ways. But there is a fit for everyone, no matter how old, no matter how young, introvert, extrovert, you know, school teacher, whatever, everybody like, there's a place for everybody in a small church. So Pam, I just, I love your I love your role model. The link for us. You're such an important part of the community. You've been in the network since it was better together from the beginning, conferences. Facebook community. You all like, if you can connect with Pam Yates, like, please do and you also run the Facebook community now, right for female worship leaders,

Pamela Yates: 30:47

is that I do have that I'm not as active in that as I should be, but yeah, I've got that out there. I have a blog that I write. Mainly do do kind of a recap of our pastor sermons and then kind of whatever's on my heart.

Laurie Acker: 31:03

Nice. Well, we will make sure to put that link in the show notes so they can find you and connect with you as well. But Pam, thank you so much for being on the show. Is there anything else you want to add before we go?

Pamela Yates: 31:14

Nothing I can think of. It's been fun. I've been looking forward to this for a while. One of these days we are going to see each other in person.

Laurie Acker: 31:21

Yes, yes. I know. I can't wait. I can't wait. You're on you're on my bucket list. I've got a list of people I need to meet in person, and you're one of them. So we'll get there soon. So all right, y'all thanks for listening. Wherever you're listening from until next week, be a light.