130: You Can’t Lead Well If You Don’t Teach Well: Healthy Leadership Is Others-Centered

In this episode, we’re unpacking the difference between leading and teaching and why both are vital in our serving.

We’re talking about getting beyond knowledge transfer and inspiring others to personal growth and transformation.

This is what Jesus did. Listen in to learn how.


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Transcript

Laurie Acker: 0:01

Hey, this is Laurie Acker. Welcome to the small church ministry podcast. Hey, welcome back to the small church ministry podcast. We are wrapping up June 2022. This month we've been celebrating our fourth anniversary here at small church ministry. Some days, I cannot believe it's only been four years, we've literally reached over a million people with our website, over 70,000 podcast downloads 10s of 1000s of people on our Facebook community and social media. It's really crazy. And it's been so amazing to connect with people in small churches all over the world. And other days, I don't feel like it's so amazing. Like, it's hard. And it feels like we've been doing this a long time, because it feels grueling at times. And not because of the type of work we're doing. We're not digging ditches in the Arizona heat. But it feels heavy because of all the struggle that we hear day in and day out. Volunteers and ministry leaders on the verge of quitting and even leaving their churches, pastors and staff exhausted and everyone asking how can we grow? How can we bring in more people or begrudging the smallness of our churches, as we compare ourselves with the big churches and a different kind of success, or feeling like failures because of our numbers, or because of broken relationships, or church conflicts, or splits, and differing levels of hurts, misunderstandings, disagreements on vision, or just a shift in the culture of people these days, really just not showing up to church in the same way. But if you are a regular listener of our podcast, or you've participated in any one of our online conferences, you know, that we are not discouraged by smaller numbers or smaller spaces. In fact, we consistently point out benefit upon benefit of smaller churches and smaller spaces, how God works specifically and uniquely, with smaller numbers, we see it, we hear the stories, the beauty and the opportunities, because we are smaller, because in small churches, the truth is, is that everyone has leadership opportunities, and ways to develop, that don't involve auditions, or being chosen. Everyone's chosen in smaller churches. In smaller churches, everyone has access to the pastor now, without boundaries. If you're a pastor, I hear you just like an alarm bell went off. Yeah, that's terrible. Without Boundaries, access to the pastor can really make it very tough on ministry families, but with correct boundaries in place, the church being a community where people share the weight. What this means is there's no waiting in line to access the pastor. The pastor has friendships with the church family, we have connection to gather. And this doesn't mean pastors do all the visitation. But the accessibility of a pastor is so much more like Jesus in smaller churches, where Jesus said, I call you I don't call you servants, I call you friends. Jesus did not model building a big organization. Now I'm not saying that's wrong. I'm just saying if you're in a smaller space, it's very Jesus like and there's goodness there. In smaller churches, there is a natural organic mixing of the generations. We don't need to split third graders from fifth graders, or young marrieds from retired professionals. It is a beautiful family feel with intergenerational wisdom from the older and the energy from the younger. Small churches are also nimble. This is another amazing benefit. I get that word from Tony Bryce, by the way pastor off in the UK, he talks about that we can pivot to meet needs and really different ways we can be nimble. We can make pivots as smaller churches were larger churches could not when there is a need in our church, in our community, or even something big happening in the world. In smaller churches, we just develop leaders differently. We care for people more personally. And please don't forget this. Many people choose smaller churches. These are people who would never step foot in a large church setting. And this is so important. Because there is a ministry that's happening in smaller churches. That would not happen in larger church settings. Whether it's because of social anxiety, past experiences with church hurt or large church failings, differing abilities or needs that simply don't work in a larger setting. Or many people today just looking for that feeling of family where they are seen and heard, and we can learn and grow together. So all that to say small churches don't just have amazing potential. They're having incredible impact already. Even sometimes When we are frustrated, or we don't recognize it, this is one of the beauties of being in community together like this with smaller churches. Now I know the past few podcast episodes have been a little longer than most, maybe a little deeper on a different level. A lot of times on the podcast where you focus on quicker wins specific skills, do this, try this. Look at this. I've taken this anniversary month to share some of my deeper core beliefs about serving in the church about doing ministry like Jesus. And I want to say in all humility, this has been growth for me, I'm on the growth path. I started in paid ministry when I was 22 years old, as a children's director slash youth director. Before then, before I was 22, I was leading VBS, I was singing on worship teams, I was part of helping to lead conferences for youth. That was when I was young. And I have to say, I do not serve now how I served then, I don't even serve the same as I did. 10 years ago. I have learned and grown and changed over decades of experience and relationships that have included great joy, and deep hurts, church conflict, church splits, I've been through it. And also great celebration. I have more joy. Now I have deeper understanding. I definitely have tons more love, less judgment, more release of ministry pressure. And although I've always been relationship focused, I've never been really program centric ever. Even that for me now is different. It's deeper. It's more encompassing. So what I'm sharing with you, is just opportunity for growth, and I'm still growing to until the day that IDI there's no shame on us as individuals or on the church as a whole. But as we learn better, let's do better. So where have you felt a little nudge, a little conviction. If you've seen if you've listened to the past couple episodes, a little call to change your growth. If you have not listened to Episode 127 128 and 129. Please go back and listen to those even before you listen to this one. Because this series builds on the one before in Episode 127. We talked about you can't serve well if you are not well, talking about our own emotions and hurts. And where this comes out is blaming others bigger reactions, burnout, negativity, cynicism, not caring for ourselves, well, Episode 128 We talked about if you can't use that you cannot be well if you do not love well, more others focus what's happening in our relationships. In Episode 129, we talked about the fact that we can't really love Well, if we do not understand others. This episode hits more on compassion, curiosity, empathy, connection, where we can have less us in them and more we doing things together with people. And today, we're jumping into a little more of a leadership focus, as we talk about that you can't lead well if you do not teach well. Today, I'm going to assume that you listen to 127 128 and 29. And that we're all in process and working on that foundational stuff. Because I will tell you, if you listen to this episode, without it, you will have a different context in your mind as we go through it. But let's just jump in, we're going to talk about the difference between leading and teaching. We're also going to touch a little bit about the difference between leading versus performance. I'm gonna give you some really practical stuff, things you can integrate into your teaching, whether you are you know, Pastor, Sunday school teacher, a youth volunteer, and honestly, even in any other area, on the worship, Team serving and hospitality. Because honestly, no matter what your role is, or even if you have a role, we are all leading and teaching on some level because people are watching us, we have influence. So first up the difference between leading and teaching and why it matters. Now, you'll find tons of different definitions out there, if you Google or search it about the difference between leading and teaching, a lot of them differ. The semantics really don't matter as much for what I'm talking about here today. As much as understanding the relationship between the two, the goal of leading and teaching and the impact that we should be going for it. To me leadership is more about telling people where to go pointing the way. Inspiration, vision. And teaching is more of a guidance, showing people how to get there going there together. Now great leaders, I believe are always great teachers. They do both. It's interrelated. Great leaders don't just point the way they are also guiding and coming alongside. This is very others centered, not me centered. You can't guide people if you don't understand them, listen to them know where they are, what their challenges are, again, go back to the last couple episodes, great leadership and great teaching is always others centered. But we flip it around a lot. Leadership sometimes feels more like performance. That's when we get the kudos is when we give a good sermon, when we lead a great meeting, when we are directing our team. Well, we often act as though leadership is performance. I have amazing skills and speaking, somebody says I always feel inspired by you. But the evidence of good leadership and good teaching is what happens next? Is there a change in the people we are speaking with? Is there a change? Is there a transformation? Great leaders always develop other people? It's a mindset of look at you not look at me. This is why great leaders are always great teachers. Teaching is not limited to a classroom, please hear that we're teaching all the time. It is a lifestyle. Leaders show the way the vision follow me, this is where I'm going. Teachers say this is how to follow me. Let's look at the challenges. Let's figure it out. So for me leading and teaching great leading and teaching is always interrelated. It is a both and an end. And this is what Jesus did. He didn't just point the way he said, Let's go together. This is how we get there. Follow me, I'll make you fishers of men walk with me. Let's go here come to the garden Dine with Me. Oftentimes, we are missing the with. When we talk about teaching and leading. It's not with it's me teaching students or me leading the group, there's a separation. We get upset when people don't show up or they're not committed, or I'm doing it myself or I'm growing faster, or they don't want to grow, whether it's kids or adults or musicians. This doesn't have to be in fact, this is the opposite of great leadership and great teaching. So how do we bring people with us when it seems like they don't want to come? We're not talking about controlling them. We're not talking about manipulation. We're not talking about bringing down the hammer. I'm going to point out some really specific ways of leading and teaching really, really well. And it starts with going slower, getting rid of our timeline for their transformation. Jesus did not do that. In a lot of churches today in our programs, we develop discipleship programs, here's a two year program, go through these classes. We have a scope and sequence for our children's curriculum. And please hear me there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just adding something to that, okay. Some people in Jesus's time never really got past the Samaritan story. And Jesus wasn't frustrated by this. He didn't like make them go with them. There were invitations, he went to the cross saying, Father, forgive them, they don't know. Now I have to be honest, I hear compassion and understanding in that. Father forgive them. They don't know. They don't understand this was a lot for them. It's understandable that they don't understand. There was compassion, there was empathy. There was love. Not a Father forgive them. They don't know they don't get it. Right. There's a difference. What makes a great leader and a great teacher getting rid of your timeline and focusing on them. The difference has to do with knowledge versus transformation. Knowledge versus knowledge transfer, right? Okay. Jesus didn't just teach people and graduate them. Like it's all good. It wasn't about the information. It was really about the transformation. And that's where we need to like lock into this. Great teachers know their students. This goes back to understanding people. Well. There are certain teachers that just seem to get you have you ever seen that? I had a math teacher, Man, I hate I was great at math when I was a kid. And then I had math teachers who just did not get me frustrated me. And I just stopped doing math. Then I had a college professor who noticed me and understood me and my learning, my potential for transformation completely changed. Yes, leaders point the way they give direction. Okay, great teachers also show people how to get there and also they walk with them. This is the transformation. It's not just about sharing my knowledge and being excellent at it. What motivates you? Great teachers want their students to want more and they are going to fit figure it out the best they can, how to transfer the excitement to know more, not just the information. I've shared a little bit before about my son's relationship with a drummer at our church. Okay. There was an older drummer, and my son was starting to learn drums at 10. And watching their relationship over the past oh my gosh, how many years is it been 1012 years has been amazing. Chuck will share old records, old recordings with Steve I remember once he got like a boombox so he could play I think, a cassette or maybe a CD because Steve didn't have that anymore, right? We don't have that. But this is where the recordings were. And I watched Steve's eyes light up at things that I never would write like, there's a book on, I don't know, drumming techniques, or, you know, listening to this, this drummer who was from ages past. Chuck got Steve excited, Steve got excited. That's where this transformation came in. I mean, how many people take music lessons and never, like, really get it or get excited. This was a transfer not just of information, but of passion and desire. It's beautiful. Steve now is teaching percussion, to and piano to this young boy who has ADHD who has a hard time staying focused. The parents love Steve. And I want to say it's not because Steve knows more than other instructors is because Steve gets his students he sees it says, oh, yeah, when he when he's done with that, I just see it and we just move on to something else. It's not about Steve's plan and Steve's structure. It's about what the student needs, where the student is excited what the next baby step is, for them. Great leaders and teachers slow down, they change their tune, they walk with the student, this is what Jesus did. He did it often. Great teachers also don't blame their students or their church members, or their partners in ministry for not getting it. They work on new ways of transferring knowledge and passion that leads to transformation. That's really the biggest difference is that I taught a great lesson and I was prepared and those students just wouldn't listen, adults or children, please stick with me. Or worship team members, or any kind of team members. I did it well, and they didn't get it No, no. Don't blame great students, great teachers. Figure out how to transfer differently. The Sower in the seed the Good Samaritan, the stories that Jesus taught. It wasn't just what he said it was what was caught. Have you heard that before? Like, it's not what's taught, it's what's caught. There is no point in throwing things out there. If the people you're throwing it out to can't catch it. And can I just say this is also one of the beauties of small church ministry, we can shift our modalities, our techniques, the way that we talk, the what we do, we can take a group of four students outside to look at rocks in the parking lot and make a lesson of it. We can do this because we are smaller. We can be with six adults in a room, one who's struggling with addiction and we can pivot we can listen, we can take time for that. Because we're not bound by a strict structure or schedule. Please hear me this is a gift of being in a smaller church, great leaders, great teachers, they make the people around them better. They don't just teach information they walk alongside. They're not just in front of the PAC, Jesus walked with people, the God of the universe didn't really show up in a highly structured, hierarchical setup. He washed feet. He said the first or last and last are first. Let me show you. How do we teach and lead? So some practical things for you all? Here are some tips to teach better lead better integrate those two terms together, okay, and figure out how this relates to your ministry roles, or your desires in ministry. So the first one I will just mention involves students from the start, in the vision in the planning parties in choosing topics. Quit going to Facebook first to ask for the next study book recommendation. Until you've asked the women in your church. What do you want to study? What are you struggling with? What would you like to see? Or the teens or the men whoever you work with, until you know them and what they need next what the next step for them is and then come to Facebook and asking her Big community, what do you recommend? This is where my people are? What would you recommend? Okay? Another principle is embracing experiential learning, not just for children, but also for adults. This is a fact. We remember as humans, we remember what we do a lot more than what we hear. Engage imagination, engage discussion. I love what Pastor Darrell and Alison Marco are doing in their small church. They added this discussion group, it's a new thing for them. I cannot wait to hear the results on Sunday morning. Now, please get this big churches could never do this small churches can the sermons shorter, and they're discussing it afterwards, in that right there in the worship center. In smaller groups, experiential learning, try it. Figure out how to involve people in the discussion more than talking at them. Another thing that is so foundational and good leading and good teaching, is to allow for mistakes, encourage them, expect them embrace mistakes, yeah, we're gonna fail, you're gonna mess up, I mess up, too. Let's allow some vulnerability in here and some real Ness. When people are afraid to fail to give a wrong answer, to cancel on a commitment to not show up and know they're gonna get judged, right? They shut down. That's how to stop the transformation is to put your standards in a way that people feel like they're failing all the time. Instead of it, let's, let's allow it, let's expect it, let's talk about it. Let's work through it. Another great thing to be a better teacher and leader is to understand learning styles and to teach in the style of your students not in your own preference. This is hard, sometimes it's a little bit of a give and take. But we've got to understand that everybody does not learn the same way we do. Understanding your student, your team member has to be a priority. We blame behavior, ADHD, different learning styles. Instead of adjusting for it. Kids and adults, please hear me. Small churches, we don't have to teach to the middle. We don't have to teach to the masses. We get to be involved in individual transformation. So cool. Don't just understand how they learn but understand what they need next. This is why we talk about the ministry funnel. If we're so focused on transformation, we will not just skip to a diving board and get mad at people that they're not caught up to where they should be. If people are not ready for Bible study, you don't throw them in the deep end, you don't kick them off the diving board or reject them. There are steps there are transitions. This is what Jesus did. That's why he didn't start with the unpacking the story of the sower in the seed. He just told the story. The people that wanted more stuck around the people that weren't ready for it. He didn't reject them, he invited them for the next story. Now great teachers often share what they are learning and what they are going through at a higher level. This isn't a bad thing. But great leaders will take that story, what they're going through maybe at a deeper level in a different place. And they make it applicable to others. This is the human factor. It's not catch up to where I am. It's this is happening in my life. Where is this happening for you? How do you relate? Great Teachers and Leaders are also compassionate, they're responsive. It is not just what we say, but it's how we say it. Great teachers redirect with kindness. It is not about you, it is about them. Great teachers ask more questions than just giving answers. Melissa McDonald at our last Kidman conference gave this amazing presentation. One of the best ones I've ever heard from her and she's an amazing teacher. But what she said, just so applicable to what we're talking about here. She said, I've always been a good teacher. And she said, I used to give all the answers. I used to think that was my job was to tell them what I've learned. And this is how I've grown. This is how I'm paraphrasing how she talked about she did it so much better. She talked about how she leaves kids hanging more now. It's not about me giving them the answer. It's about inspiring them to find the answer to want the answer. That replay is going to be available in these new products we're creating just this week actually. They're called small church solutions. And what we're doing is we're taking some of the best replay From all of our conferences, and packaging them into specific solution to specific issues that we get asked all the time, that one replay is going to be available in a bundle about teaching mixed ages with with children. And that's not the only bundle we're creating if you want to learn to teach better learn from people like Melissa McDonald, weigh now Henson, who teaches for both adults and children, Angela, Angela marks, the links to these products are in the show notes, you can check them out and let me keep going. Great leaders and teachers make time for listening. They create space, time to think and process they don't plan from Bell to bell as you would talk about like in a school setting from Bell to bell. Like we when we plan a study our to our end, and leave no room for feedback or discussion. Or even just quiet like letting people kind of catch up to what's being taught. Don't fill an hour if you have an hour. It stretches everyone's like processing capacity. Great Leaders Ask for feedback all the time. What did you learn what was confusing? This is how we know what is caught. Remember what I talked about what is taught versus what is caught? You don't know what's caught unless you ask people. What was your favorite takeaway? What did you learn? What do you want to learn? What do you still have questions about. And I will also say this great leaders and teachers do not over intellectualize Christianity, or our faith. We have a trend over the past few decades, that have taken emotions, out of our learning out of discipleship and we need to stop this. emotions aren't bad. God gave us emotions a soul, a spirit and feelings are Christian faith is not just about what we know. The focus on just information only is not good. A focus on transformation includes it necessitates emotional awareness and involvement, understanding of who God has created us to be mind, body, and spirit. And as I mentioned, body, I really do mean body. People walk into worship services, their bodies are tense, because they've been arguing in the car with someone or they are shut down because they're dealing with a diagnosis or something happening in their life. We can't just expect people, adults and children just to flip on a dime, and be ready for whatever we have for them. We've got to understand and love people in a way that includes them. If you understand people, you will teach and lead differently. If you understand people, you will love people differently. If you love people differently, you will have a different sense of wellness in your own being. That's why this podcast episodes builds on the three before, please go back and catch this whole series if you haven't. Sometimes we want to skip to leadership, we want to teach well and lead well. Because in a sense, we believe it's the most important thing to do. It is a higher gift and a greater gift. I know we don't say we believe that but most people do. Most of us deep down inside, there is a struggle with this because it is in the spotlight, it is very public is always noticed. And if it's noticed, it must be more significant. But can I just say how weird that statement is? And how not like Jesus that is loving others is very noticed. And it is more impactful than up upfront performance of leading and teaching. And by the way, you can do all the practical things I just mentioned asking questions asking for feedback, being interactive, involving emotions, understanding learning styles, and if you do not really love and understand people, and have a great degree of emotional health yourself, you can still do all those things. But your impact will be severely less than it could be. As far as leadership and teaching skills go, I assume and really believe that you probably have some good skills. If you're listening to this podcast, you probably are a good leader you serve well. You have a track record of success and even awesomeness. And it really is amazing. And can I also say can you imagine how much better we'd be if our own capacity was enlarged by our own caring and stewarding ourselves well our own emotional health If we've really truly dug deep into loving others, and realizing these little triggers in our mind when we're upset when somebody doesn't show up, when somebody cuts us off in traffic, that that actually could lead us to a deeper place of love and understanding of other people. So I totally get it, you are already doing great. Maybe you get a little annoyed, as I mentioned, when people don't show up, maybe you've got a little bit of resentment over consumer Christians are like, Why are they bearing their own weight, you're doing a lot. You're doing great, you're putting like some of your own stress on the shelf, you're such shoving it under the rug, you're keeping your high level of commitment and responsibility. But can you imagine how much better we would be? How much better we would feel exist, work love move function, if we truly felt the love. For the people that cut us off for the self centered person, we don't want to reach out to anymore for the church member who seems to create a little extra stress. Because we cannot serve our best if we're not our best, we cannot be our best. If we don't love our best, we cannot love our best if we don't understand others really, really well. And we cannot lead and teach our best. If we're not doing all these things. I suppose the title of my podcast episodes we can't serve well, we can't be well, we can't lead Well, you know, maybe that's a little off well is a relative term, I know you're already doing really well. I just really think about how much better how much more impact how much more transformation we would see. If we were loving and leading the way that Jesus was, if we were less digging in our heels, if there were less power struggles in our churches, less conflict, more honesty, more collaboration, more sharing more vulnerability. Because let's face it, we've got a lot of leaders who teach well, but maybe don't love that well. Self included, who really aren't loving other humans as much as we could be, who aren't as emotionally healthy as we could be. And yes, the church keeps going round and round only by the grace of God. And imagine if Jesus can work through us now as we are. Just imagine what what would be happening if we were all moving as a culture as a church culture, toward our own emotional health, healing and wholeness toward more deeper love and understanding, just imagine, that's what I want for you and for me and for the church. That we wouldn't just keep going at the status quo, fumbling around, not dealing with our own heart issues. That we would be working toward cultural change, more honesty, healthy vulnerability, more togetherness, that we would display more Christ likeness, which is not evidenced in our proclamation of dog a truth as much as evidenced in our love and our humility, our radiation of love and joy and peace and patience, that goodness and kindness, and gentleness and faithfulness and self control. So let's keep going. Let's keep going and growing together no matter what your position, your skills, your talent, where you serve, or how much you serve. You really are a teacher and a leader. Now, someone is watching you and learning from you. And we get to choose what we're passing on. Before I go, as mentioned, just released this week, small church solutions, new packs to learn from and grow from. We've taken leading voices from past conference bundles, put them together into solution specific packs, you're gonna love them. Related to this podcast, there are two for sure. One is teaching mixed ages in children and youth ministry. The other is a women's ministry, one where we hear this all the time. What do we do all they want is fun. Nobody wants a Bible study. And that packs speak specifically to that. We've got others coming up on leadership issues inclusivity with differing abilities. There's a few available this week on a special introductory pay what you want pricing, and there will also be more coming. So check out the link in the show notes so you don't miss that. All right, next week. We'll be here before you know it. Talk to you again soon. Be alive.