109: From Small Church Pastor To Community Pastor | with Pastor Jeff Shouse

If you’re looking for the secret to better community outreach, don’t miss this episode.

Listen in to hear how one small church pastor led his church to become the place the community turns to for help.

From opening their church building for local high school events to providing memorial dinners for community members with no strings attached, this small church has become a hub of community care.

Our guest on the podcast today, Pastor Jeff Shouse from First Baptist Church in Ramsey, Illinois, shares the moment he realized he was the “Community Pastor.”

Connect with Pastor Jeffrey Shouse:
https://fbcramsey.org/

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Transcript

Laurie Acker: 0:01

Hey, this is Laurie Acker. Welcome to the small church ministry podcast Hey, welcome back to another episode of the small church ministry podcast, we have a treat. Today on the show. We're gonna be talking with Pastor Jeff shouts from a First Baptist Church in Ramsey, Illinois. You're gonna love this man. Now I know most people listening are not pastors like our audience is so unique and so special. And I love it so much, because I really believe small churches are powered by volunteers, you know, some small churches, they're able to have a small staff, maybe there's a part time children's director, maybe there's a worship leader. Sometimes there's even like a second pastor. But really small churches are powered so much by those volunteers who are serving day in and day out and working a full time job. And, you know, raising families or whatever they're about, but it is so awesome to just get to talk with and hear the heart of those pastors who are leading the charge. And we've got one very special pastor on the show today. Pastor Jeff showers, as I mentioned, is a pastor out in Ramsey, Illinois, I actually got to speak at their church. Stephanie, his wife is part of our community here with small churches on our Facebook community. And it's just been so fun to connect. But I actually got to stay in his house. So I had to laugh. Like we're interviewing a pastor, and I've been in your home. I've been in your church, and it was such a delight. And so I'm so grateful. You're on the show. So welcome.

Jeffrey Shouse: 1:37

Well, thank you. It's great to be here. Awesome.

Laurie Acker: 1:39

Well, let's just get started. Why don't you tell them your journey to becoming a small church pastor?

Jeffrey Shouse: 1:46

All right, well, I grew up in a pastor's family, my my dad's pastor, my grandfather was a pastor. I'm the seventh generation within being a being a pastor. But that was never my plan. In fact, it's, I would, you know, growing up in church, you always have people ask, you know, what are you going to do when you grow up? What are you going to do? And my answer was always the same. My answer was always well, I don't know. But I do know this, I will never be a pastor. And I just didn't want anything to do with it. Because I'd seen the troubles and the heartaches and the, and the struggles that my dad went through that my grandfather went through and, and then I just didn't want that kind of a life. And then when I was in high school, I had my plan set out for me it was, I was going to become a physical therapist, I was a runner, and looking to go into college, on scholarship for that already had a scholarship lined up, and then had a meeting which I blew money out. And all of a sudden, I can't run my whole life is just kind of falling apart. And I remember very vividly sitting in church one, one day, one night, I used to have revivals that lasted a week long and to have a guest speaker come and preach for that weekend. And during that week, you know, I'm just a rambunctious add, teenager who's not listening to a thing anybody saying, and just in my boredom, just started flipping through the Bible, and all of a sudden, everything just kind of stopped. And I've just read the words, preach the Word. And it was one of those times in which it's hard to explain unless you've ever been through that. I just knew at that moment, God was speaking to me at that time. And, and my response was, Okay, Lord, I'll do that. But I will never be a pastor. And it was as if God said, Okay, that's fine. For now. Just give what you can right now. And throughout, throughout that time in which growing up going to college, meaning Stephanie getting married, the Lord just kept kind of carving away at the at the the hardness of my heart towards being a pastor, I love pastors don't get me wrong, but I just know the struggles that they go through and how hard it is. And, and he just kept kind of chopping away at that a little bit at a time. And it's kind of funny. You know, I've been doing this since, oh my goodness. 1997 And it wasn't until probably about 10 years ago that I finally completely said, Okay, this is what I'm gonna do the rest of my life. From the Bible as a pastor of pastoring, ever, several churches, there was several times I would even look at in other ministries that I could go into and, and be a part of those. But I'm at a point where I can't really see myself doing anything. Wow.

Laurie Acker: 5:17

Well, I know that you have a heart for smaller churches. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show and introduce you like to the world because it is so beautiful to see people who are, I don't know, just embracing, like what God is doing in your place. And can you just talk a little bit about that small church, big church mentality? And what you see as the beauty and even the unique ministry opportunities there?

Jeffrey Shouse: 5:43

Sure. I think it's, you would know the statistics better than I do. But it's like 97 98% of all churches, in a in the world really, are small churches. And yet, there's this inferiority complex that so many churches have, it's like, well, what can we do? I mean, we're just this little old church in this little old place. But one of the things that we're discovering now is we were living in this world that is becoming more and more disconnected. Which is ironic, because we have the social medias we have, we have Skypes, we have, you know, iPhones in our, in our so many zoom conferences, it was so many ways to connect, and yet we feel more disconnected than ever before. Because, you know, just like this, we're in two different parts of the country, this is an amazing thing that we can do here. But there's something special about being face to face, there's something special about being in this occupying the same room together. And to know each other's name, to know each other's heart ache to to be able to help each other. And that's a unique place that small churches do better than anybody else. And people look at the events, they look at the big ministries, they look at all of that. And one of the things that we started discovering is that, look at what Jesus did he, he started with 12. And he got to know those 12, so much better than anybody else. And then those 12 went out. And they didn't go after the beggars. I mean, we have the one time though the one Deacon who fill up, he wants his, his audience got to be too big. God moved them out of there, to go to one person. And so small churches give a place to where they are connected with ordinary people, because they are ordinary people. And they can. They may not be big, they might not be fancy, they may not be polished. But I think there's something beautiful in that. I think there's something beautiful in the imperfections that we offer. Because it's real, and it's authentic. And we're not doing it for the show. We're doing it. Because we number one, we love God. And then secondly, we love each other because we need each other.

Laurie Acker: 8:30

Yeah, have you always kind of embraced the smallness of a place? Or have you struggled as many have with like, why is my church not growing? Or why do not not have a big following? Or did you ever struggle with that? Or has that small church always had a place in your heart?

Jeffrey Shouse: 8:46

I think everybody struggles with it. I think everybody goes through that. I mean, everybody wants to make a name for themselves, everybody. Nobody wants to live in obscurity. Nobody wants to be unknown or unseen. And there's that draw of the lights and the glamour and the, and the idea of you know, I can leave a legacy I can make a name for myself and, and, and then I've had friends in one of the worst things that that I kind of encountered it and so I stopped going or conferences. Because all the conferences, all the big speakers, all the main speakers and all the breakout sessions speakers, for the most part, not all of them, but for the most part, are led by pastors whose pastoring churches of 1000 2000 3000 on and on and on. And they make you feel about an inch tall, because it's almost as if there's something wrong with me because I don't have what you have. But the town that I live in is smaller than most of their churches. So I'm never gonna have that I just had to be okay with that. And so it's through necessity, as well as through a change of perspective. The Lord really had to change my heart on, on saying bigger is not better. And as we have seen in the last 10 years, how many of these big time church leaders have fallen? Yeah, a lot of that had to do was because they pastored a big church and got a big name. And all the temptations come with that. And so, seven I talked about all the time, we praise the Lord for protecting us from the big church. We thank God for protecting us from from pastoring a large church.

Laurie Acker: 10:46

Yeah, you know, when you mentioned, like, you know, no one wants to live in obscurity, and everyone wants to leave a legacy, you know, as I'm looking at you. And as I've gotten to know, you and Stephanie, like, you are leaving a legacy, like, if you left the earth right now, like, how many people would be like, Where'd my pastor go, you know, and how many, and it's not the number, but it's like that depth because I saw that depth of relationship. You all have. And I have to be honest, the bigger audience does not translate to a bigger legacy. Like that legacy. The life change is so founded in deep connected relationships. And can you talk to us a little bit about your revelation of being a community pastor, that was such a fun story I got to hear when I was having dinner with you and Stephanie, in your home? Do you remember the story you shared about that? Yeah.

Jeffrey Shouse: 11:40

Stephanie, and I was out one day, and I had this lady come up to me. And, and she started asking me for, you know, as I get very often, you know, prayer requests or help, or you know, I can't even remember what the exact conversation was. And so I'm trying to remember how everything went, it just came up. I introduced myself to her at the very beginning of that time. And I said, Well, I'm Jeff salsa. You know, I'm the pastor of the baptist church down there. And she goes, Well, I know who you are. You're my pastor. And I looked at her. And I was thinking, really, because I've never seen this woman before in my life. I had never seen her ever. And she has never come to the church since I've been here. And I've been here for over nine years now. So it dawned on me that, you know, we live in, we live in a small town, we are the big church in town. We're right around 100, a little bit over 100 in our worship services. But it dawned on me that she saw me as her pastor, because she didn't have any other church affiliation. She didn't have any other church to go to. And so if she was going to come to church, she was going to come to our church, and if she was going to have a pastor I was going to be and so she knew me, even though I didn't know her. And that kind of flipped a switch for me. And, and so it's, you know, the official title was Jeff's house, pastor at First Baptist Church, Ramsey. The real title is Jeff shells, pastor of Ramsey. And that flipped a switch and of realizing, okay, the ministry that I have is, is not just here, but it's beyond these walls, it's in the streets, it's in the schools. It's in the in the grocery store. We have we're in the graph gas station we have. And, you know, of course, there comes. It's interesting, because I have a lot of friends who are pastors of large, large churches, and they have this almost like this freedom that they can go out, do whatever they want, nobody really knows who they are, you know, outside of just church. I go anywhere within a 50 mile radius of this place, people already know who I am. And that I embrace that accountability. Because it's, it reminds me that no matter where I am, what I'm doing, I have to represent Christ. And there is no time off for that. And there shouldn't be. That's how it should be.

Laurie Acker: 14:29

Yeah, so I love the concept of a community pastor, Pastor Brian David Simms out in LA, he had been on the podcast last year at some point, and he talked about how he saw himself as the community pastor. And when you said that to me, there's just such a it just resonates so much with how I feel Christ would have walked around the planet, right? Like, I'm their pastor, I'm their shepherd. I'm there and not just the people who To claim me as their shepherd, or claim me as their pastor, and just to see that amount of care. And for you, Jeff, like the love that you have for your community, not just the people who come to your church, but the people, as you mentioned, at the gas station down the street, your next door neighbor, the person who's you know, out in the field, farming, you know, all those kind of feelings, I just feel so much connection that you have with the people that you're around. And how do you reach your community? Like, how do you see yourself as the community pastor? What are some actions that you take? Or that your church has opened their doors to? Or how do you actually connect with these people who don't see themselves as part of your church?

Jeffrey Shouse: 15:42

A lot of times you can you, people are open during the most difficult times of their lives. And so one of the things that we do is, the last year, I've preached probably about 14 funerals, only for those who are members of our church. And but every single one of them except for one, I think, the service was here at our church, we gave that we we provided a meal, we provided, you know, grief counseling, if they wanted it. And we were able to minister to them, because here in the most difficult time that that they're going to experience this whole year, we're right there with them. And they found comfort and peace and hope in this place through us and listen to do something like that it goes way beyond me. I mean, we have so many people involved. And they get to hear and see the love of, of the church, through the mills and through the music and through the sound and through people greeting them and and so our doors are always open, we have two different tops groups, which is a weight loss group, they meet here, two different times a week, we don't charge anything for that, we'd love to have them the school beats in our building constantly. The basketball team, we have a gym. And so anytime that their schedule is has conflicts in it for practice, they come over here they practice in our gym. We are really striving to be the community center around to where people know they come here to be fed, they can come here and be be cared for. They can get counseling here, they can get food here, if they needed, they, you know, just whatever they need. This is the place. In fact, we had somebody called out to last week. And it was interesting, because they call in the LA Times we get calls for benevolence and things like that. Well, she was called she said, I need a plumber said, Okay. And I said well, we're happy to take care of that for you. We need some more. She's a no, no, you don't understand that. I have the money I'll pay for I just can't find anybody who would do it. And so I didn't know who else to call. And the one place you call this the church like Well, we were able to give her a few numbers of people we knew, but it was just because we know who we have. You know, we have guys who come here and work on our plumbing. And we gave them their names because we have to pay for plumbing too. But it was just kind of funny because she had no she didn't know where else to go. Even to find a name of a plumber. Yeah. And she thought, well, I know the church will help.

Laurie Acker: 18:51

So okay, so let me just ask you this. There's a lot of churches out there. Churches have 100 churches of less than 100 churches and rural areas and suburban areas, wherever. And they don't have the reputation that your church has, like, there's churches who would say I would totally help if anybody would come to me, but nobody's coming and nobody's calling and things like that. What do you think has made the difference for your church? Have you even seen a transition in your time there? Like, have you always been the Community Church? Or do you think there's things that you all have done to make yourself available or known?

Jeffrey Shouse: 20:01

We've been very intentional making ourselves available. And one of the big things that we did and that we are continuing to do is, we are in our school, all week, every week, we have members who are teachers there at one time every janitor in the building was a member of ours. So I have great relationships with both principals for the elementary school and then the high school. And they in time they need anything they call me. Whether it's I'm taking school supplies or cosmetics or whatever the kids may need, we're there. We do a program, the fact that we're having one this Friday called Lighthouse. And what it is, is, we invite all the community kids that come in, and they just play basketball. They, they play games, it's just a fun time and we feed them, we have a short service that they come and they listen to. But we have 2530 kids that aren't members of our church that aren't regular dinners. And they're coming on a Friday night here to be fed, and, you know, in our people show up, and they get to know who their names are, we did an after school program for a little while. So we, we were intentional about getting into some place the I mean, here in Ramsey. Our school is really the center of our community. And as it is in like communities, and so what we did was we said, okay, how can we partner with you, in order to help you do what you're doing. And I think we had to find a lot of suspicion and a lot of cynicism, of, we had to take some hits on some things and saying, listen, we're not here to make a name for ourselves, we're not here to try to get you to come to our church. We really are here just to help you help these kids. And we it, it took a good three, four years of faithful, consistent, showing up and just, we feed our teachers, we, at the beginning of each school year, on Teacher Appreciation Week, we make sure there's something in their lounge that you know, snacks or something that they can have. And it's just and the only message is we love you. We love you. It's not come to church, it's not these are times there's our services, they know who we are, they can look up what time our services is. We just simply want to say we love you. And now over the last four or five years, if there's a crisis, we're the ones that call, we've actually been invited in battle, instead of trying to try to get a foot in, where they're inviting, and they were the first ones they call. And so it's it's been a long, slow transition. But one of the things I tell people all the time is God is not in a hurry. He grossed eight. And so we have to be faithful. Even if we've never get credit for it. Yeah,

Laurie Acker: 23:27

yeah, it's so refreshing to hear you even just say, you know, we, we want to serve you, we want to help you do what you're doing. We want to partner with you. Because so many times in small churches, there's like a desperation of we've got to get people in the church, we've got to get people in the church. And this isn't successful unless those people end up coming to our church. And I haven't heard you say that once.

Jeffrey Shouse: 23:53

Jesus said, If If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto myself. And it is our responsibility, number one to love people, then we have to earn the right to share the gospel with them. And then even then we have to wait for the right opportunity. And, you know, we've tried the whole the whole confrontational evangelism thing that, you know, that's been promoted. And so it for the most part, I mean, there's exceptions to everything. But what we're finding is the relational ship model that we saw Jesus do the relationship model that we're finding out here, it's just it just works. And it we had to wait for the end. But when that opportunity comes, we have to see it and season. And that's the other key to that. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurie Acker: 24:50

The relationship model. I heard you say that, and how would you define that for people who might be like, what's the relationship model? And they're looking for a strategy?

Jeffrey Shouse: 25:00

Oh, it's not a strategy. It's just loving people. It's, it's, it's loving people for where they are. And it's, it's funny, because almost everybody knows who I am. There are some few there are some people who don't know who I am, and that's just fine. And I'll go work out at the gym. And everyone's wants to come into the gym, they have no clue who I am. And so I'll just start talking with him. And we'll just build, you know, just, you know, get to know each other and there was one guy specifically We just kind of ended up at the gym at the same time working out together for almost a month straight. And we're talking about two or three times a week, where that same time and so it just kind of became a joke at first and then we just really got to know each other. So for the summer, he just knew me as Jeff. That's all yes. And the owner of the gym is a friend of mine, he's, you know, it comes to church, he is great guy. And so this other guy that I was talking to, had been talking had talked to him and, and somehow it came up in the conversation that he's already had, there's just one guy comes in same time that I do and, and Danny, the owner of the gym knows, that's when I go and work out. He said, Oh, talking about the pastor at the church. He was the what. And the first time we were back in there together, it was so stinking awkward, because he just, I could before he was just, you know, he bled out some words he, you know, he, he just was just a regular guy. And so now he's trying to be super careful. And what I'm saying and is, and I can tell you, he's almost apologetic, and I was like, listen at what has what changed from last week to this week? Nothing. You just know what I do for a living. You just know that what? You know that, who I am. I said, I didn't judge you before record judge now. Yeah. And now over the course of time, I've been able to share Christ with him now a little bit a little bit out of time. And I can tell when he starts, tart tuning me off. And sometimes we have to give people time to process for sure. The Gospel. And so coming at it at bits, is is more effective. Now, if I had just came in that first time and say, Hey, I'm the pastor down at the church. And let me tell you about Jesus, he would have told me, he would have never showed up again, when I was there. We still you know, of course, I haven't been in several months now because of my, my ankle injury. Surgery. But I know that when I go back, and if go back at the same time, if he's there, we'll just pick right up where we left off. I

Laurie Acker: 28:00

love it. I love it. It's been so fun hearing a little more of your story, and just the amount of influence that your church has in the community. And I just love that people are saying, my pastor, I've never even been in your church. before we'd go, can we talk just a little bit about volunteers? Because a lot of volunteers and churches think, oh, that's the pastor's job, or I don't want to overstep or, you know, I'm just a volunteer. That phrase, I'm just a volunteer, what do you think of volunteers?

Jeffrey Shouse: 28:31

Oh, there's no way we could do a tiff of what we do here without our volunteers. And I believe, I don't even like like that term volunteer. They are just as much of a minister of the church as I am. And now what we have, we have changed the way we've gone about it, we have one of the things that we've done is we've identified what people's interests are we and once again, relationship model, we have to get to know people. What do people like to do? What do people enjoy doing what, and we've tailored our ministries around that, instead of what, you know, some convention or or some store says, you know, this is what you should be doing. I really believe that God has given us everything we need to be effective today. And that includes we have everybody we need now, to be effective. We don't need more people, we need to use the people we have. And a lot of that has to do with finding out who they are. And so we instituted a rule when somebody joins our church, for one year, they can't lead anything. They're not allowed to lead anything. Because we want them to get involved in the ministries we already have. And we want to time to get to know them. And we want them to have time to get to know who we are. And so after that years up and that they've been involved in they've been faithful and things that will come to them and say, Hey, we see this in you. How do you think about being a part of this? Or what do you think about doing this for us? And the whole idea of just saying, hey, we need somebody to do this. Nobody 90% of time nobody wants to get up and say I'll do that. But when you go to somebody individually, it makes them feel special because it makes them feel seen. You know me, you you know that I would have enjoyed doing that. You know that that's a passion of mine. That's, that's something I enjoy doing already. And so we've got, there's still a few people who will turn us down. But for the most part, honestly, out of the 100 this past Sunday, we had 125. In our worship service, I could look out in the congregation, I know at least 80 of them are involved in one ministry of some kind. Yeah,

Laurie Acker: 30:59

well, it's so true. Like, when people say, oh, people are too busy to serve, or they don't want to serve, or they're not committed, I have never found that to be true. I think people love to be involved in things that bring them joy and things that bring them significance, like you said, nobody wants to be unknown or unseen, or not have a legacy. We all want that. And when we can tap into that in our church, in our churches, and just see who God has brought, and what he's designed for your specific church, it's, it's quite amazing. And it's, it's very creative. Have you seen any things happen in your church that you maybe weren't anticipating or weren't part of your master vision, but somebody came along? And you're like, wow, look what's happening here?

Jeffrey Shouse: 31:42

Yeah, we've got a couple things. One, we have a meal train that we have, which sounds kind of weird, but it's, we have one lady in the church, who very technologically savvy, and, but also is an incredible cook. And so anytime we have somebody who's having surgery, or had a death in the family, or is sick, you know, during COVID, I mean, that thing was running constantly. But we've got a list of 20 women, maybe a few men, too, who are on her database. And she has set up a calendar and set up a person and they go in, they said, we'll make this meal at this time and do it and, and then though, that's all that they do. Then they make the meal, they go to the person's house, they bring it, they pray with them, and they leave. When I had my surgery, we had people show up every day for that first week. And you know, I didn't expect that. I didn't ask for that. And yet, here they are. They they saw, you know, the need. And so they came in and helped us out. And it was amazing. And

Laurie Acker: 32:55

that's a ministry that's run by.

Jeffrey Shouse: 32:59

Yes. Yes.

Laurie Acker: 33:01

I love it. I love watching it ministry kind of grows organically out of people's gifts and their passions and all of that. It's really beautiful to see.

Jeffrey Shouse: 33:09

Yeah, I have, honestly, I don't even know. I'm sure they're they're feeding somebody right now. But I have no idea who it is or perhaps even taking meals. So I don't need to know. That's, I check in with them every once awhile, I think I can do for it. No, it's going good. Okay. Move on. Wow,

Laurie Acker: 33:32

it is so great to be connected with you, Jeff. And just to I don't know, just to know that you're representing Christ so well in this community. And I love thinking of small churches as like little satellites, like all over the planet. Before we run out of time, what do you want to say to pastors to volunteers to small churches, what's what's left on your heart that you want to share?

Jeffrey Shouse: 33:56

I think that the biggest thing, or the if if I just had one thing to encourage pastors, of small churches in small churches is I've already said it, but God has given you everything you already need. In Stop, stop looking at what you wish it could be. Stop looking at what you want it to be. And start seeing it for what it is, and the potential that is there. Because God has given you all the talents, and use the talents he's given you. You have a wealth of a wealth of ministry sitting within those pews, sitting within those chairs. You have wisdom there, though, of these guys who have been through battles. And so they know what's gonna work and what's not going to work and use them. Don't fight against them, use them, and get to be get to be a family. And then you'll see God really, I really believe you'll see God work. It'll take time. He's not hurry. Gross. So be patient. I

Laurie Acker: 35:11

love it. Thank you for sharing your story with us, Jeff. I think one of the things that we need to do more in small churches is get connected to people who are loving their ministry and seeing God work because, as you mentioned earlier, when you used to go to ministry conferences, they're usually filled with people in big churches, and it makes us feel so small and minimized and maybe not as important but when we get around other people from small All our places who are excited who are watching God move who are making an impact in their community. It gives us a different kind of hope and a different kind of passion and a different kind of momentum like, Oh, like this can be happening in our church where we are. Because there's nothing special. Well, there is something special, but there's nothing different, that special about the people in Ramsey than about the people in Elgin, or the people in you know, Aurora or the people in Tucson, like everyone has their special uniqueness is like God brought us together in our places where we are. And I just feel like if we could tap into that, and I, I do really believe that sharing stories and hearing from pastors like yourself, is one of the biggest things that happens in our community in our small church network in small church Academy and in our free Facebook community, because instead of going to conferences, and seeing all these big churches, we could never do the same types of things. We come to conferences and hear from people like you, in small churches, we listen to podcasts from people in smaller churches, who literally are experiencing God at work right where they're at.

Jeffrey Shouse: 36:46

Yeah, yeah, we we have it's funny, because these conferences, we decided, you know, what, we need to do something for the small churches. And so we have three conferences a year. And, and we have a women's conference, we have a worship conference, and then we have a youth conference. And and it's all small churches, and it's grow all of them are growing and growing and growing. So it's

Laurie Acker: 37:14

I really believe it's God's it's the God's using it all around the planet using small churches everywhere. We just got to, we got to join them. We got to see that what he's doing and we just have to join them instead of wishing for something we don't have. So such a joy to have you on the podcast. Jeff, thank you so much. I hope I get to have dinner with you in person again sometime as well. And for everybody who's listening if you are not part of the small church network and Academy yet come join us if you're not part of our free Facebook group yet. Come join us. We will post some links below. Come find us wherever you're at for the encouragement, support and training that you need. We are here for you. So anyway, everybody will talk to you next week. Until then be light